Three Consecutive Par-3s...?

[Forrest Richardson]

Besides the British examples, Chipstead, Callander, Ilfracombe and Betws-y-coed, are there any regulation courses in North America where one finds three par-3s in a row?

[ed_getka]

I don't know of any, but I don't see why it couldn't be done. You could have a long par 3 1/2, a short breather par 3, and then something like a redan or Biarritz that would dictate using the ground somewhat for most golfers.

[PThomas]

I don't know of any, but I don't see why it couldn't be done. You could have a long par 3 1/2, a short breather par 3, and then something like a redan or Biarritz that would dictate using the ground somewhat for most golfers.

sounds like a fine challenge for our GCA architects Ed!

[Forrest Richardson]

Well...we have one on the drawing board. The only way to accommodate good golf is to string three 3s at 15, 16 and 17. The back nine would have two 5s and three 3s = 35.

[rjsimper]

Forrest,
What are the characteristics of each of the three?

Having such a sequence so close to a round's end would probably be more jarring than closer to the middle, but as Ed said, I suppose it could work if they were different enough and each with enough individual merit.

[Forrest Richardson]

15 — 160-yards, 15-ft. uphill to a green elevated into a small valley created by two hillsides. At present, an "L" green. Hole plays 180-ish.

16 — 150-yards, level across a glen to a green set above a ravine to the right. At present, a very long and narrow green with 5-ft. fall back toward front. Hole plays 150-ish.

17 — 130-yards, 15-ft. downhill to a green set left of a rock outcrop and pine copse. Hole plays 120-ish.

[Brad Tufts]

I'm not exactly answering the question as asked, but my home course of Tedesco in Mass. has the following consecutive holes:

#6, 277 yards par 4
#7, 240 yards par 3
#8, 135 yards par 3

I would guess there aren't many 3-consecutive-hole total yardages that are lower than that on a course as long as 6500, par 70.

#6 is uphill, but driven periodically (at great risk), basically a par 3.8 even if you lay up.  #7 is downhill to a very small green.  I have seen the back tee to back pin yardage be as much as 258 once in a while.  It plays as about a par 3.5.  #8 is a straighforward 130 yarder with bunkers front, back, left, and right, and steeply back to front sloping green.  For lower h'cappers, it plays right on par 3.0.

[rjsimper]

15 — 160-yards, 15-ft. uphill to a green elevated into a small valley created by two hillsides. At present, an "L" green. Hole plays 180-ish.

16 — 150-yards, level across a glen to a green set above a ravine to the right. At present, a very long and narrow green with 5-ft. fall back toward front. Hole plays 150-ish.

17 — 130-yards, 15-ft. downhill to a green set left of a rock outcrop and pine copse. Hole plays 120-ish.

How long is the course overall, and how long are the 3-pars on the front?  While this is understandable on a 6100 yard, par 72 course...it's certainly less palatable to me if this is the sequence on a course where I've been playing 400+ yard par 4s most of the time and then suddenly having 3 holes that don't hit 450 cumulatively.  As Ed said, and as Brad alluded to loosely, I think at least one would have to be more of a par 3.5.

[Forrest Richardson]

It is a short course. Most people will be casual golfers playing par-71 from about 5500 yards. Tips will extend to 6100. On the front there are 3s of 150 and 225.

I find it interesting that there is obsession with length on these 3s. If you played the Dell, Postage Stamp and Redan, one-after-another, would you feel cheated because one of them, was not a "par 3.5" in distance?

[ed_getka]

Forrest,
   I like the uphill shot and the downhiller. Is there enough room to to make the surrounds interesting, or are these going to be hit the green or else shots?
   What are you thinking in terms of internal contour on the greens, particularly the last one being so short and downhill?
    How long is the carry on the middle hole? A forced carry for casual golfers may be a bit much. Is there a way around for the foozler?

[ed_getka]

Also, are any of the greens set on a diagonal? Will there be any bunkering?

[Matt_Ward]

Forrest:

I can name a Jersey course where such a situation happens.

Spring Brook Country Club (Morristown, NJ)

9th - 192 yds.
10th - 177 yds.
11th - 206 yds.

The 9th and 10th both play over a pond and are far from easy - especially when the pin is cut tight to the front on #10. I personally believe the uphill 11th is one of the state's unheralded holes. The green is quite small and you need to hit plenty of club to get to the target.

[Forrest Richardson]

Thanks, Matt.

Ed — There are no forced carries per se. It will certainly be a goal to make the surrounds as interesting as possible. Our initial thoughts are — based on the terrain — that 15 will fall-off to the front; 16 will have a low along the right (yes, this is diagonal) and 17 will be a plateau with fall off along the left and back.

[JohnV]

Coeur d' Alene has 3 in four holes with the other hole being a very short drivable par 4.  Yardages from the tips:

#3 - 168
#4 - 322
#5 - 143
#6 - 173

#4 played much shorter than that as I recall from my one round there back in the early '90s.  I seem to recall reaching it with a 4-iron from a slightly shorter tee.

[Garland Bayley]

Truth be told, Forrest failed to get approval in the past for such a configuration, and he is gathering data for his next assault.  

Go get em Forrest!

[Bruce Katona]

As Matt Ward mentioned Spring Brook in NJ has this situation....the consecutive forced carries over water (9-10)are more or less the same shot just 180 degrees opposite....#11 is a very good par 3....they also have an uphill par 3 on #14 which is good.....Springbrook is a very good test for par 70...(6 par 3's)....in truth the 3 par 3's in a row on this course are not my most favorite.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Forest, at the very least three threes in a row will give people something to talk about.

[Ian Andrew]

Glendale in Hamilton had three in a row until 5 years ago. Now there is not even two in a row, two new holes were required to accomplish the change.

It was odd enough to play, but each par three was quite good, so it never really bothered you too much. They varied from 140 to 220 and that seemed to help.

[Greg Murphy]

I am a member of a club that once had three consecutive par 3's all within about 20 yards in length from each other. From what I can gather, since it was before I became a member, it was always considered an undesirable situation, if not downright embarrassing. Another local course, a Stanley Thompson routing, has only one par 3 on the back nine at the tenth hole, preceeded by par 3's on the 7th and 9th, i.e., three par 3's in a stretch of four holes, but I've never heard a single comment about it, probably because of the two shot hole between the 7th and 9th and the break between nines at the 9th and 10th, which together seems to break up the repetitiveness of similar holes following one upon the heels of another. The yardages of the one shot holes also vary considerably, from 240 to 160 to 180. I really think three par 3's, of similar length, coming so near the end of the round, runs the risk of giving the course something of a bad rap, which will be made worse if the 14th and 18th are not driver holes off the tee. It could work but the holes will all have to be very strong and unique.

[Forrest Richardson]

As the day moves on it appears we are heading in a slightly different direction...still two par-3s, but 15 is taking a beating by all here and our cient. I appreciate the input and examples of other srings of 3s.