The most exciting shots in golf

[wsmorrison]

Mark Fine,

You often have a condescending tone to those that do not agree with you even if you do use emoticons.  I don't understand why it is so difficult for you to accept that not everyone will or should agree with your expansive definition.  You certainly don't have to be so disdainful of those of us that disagree and cannot see the point in any case.  

OK, everything is a hazard, either formal or informal.  So what?  Your use of the term makes it meaningless and at the same time makes for a dull conversation.

[Mark_Fine]

Wayne,
I just re-read the posts.  I think you are confused on who is condesending.  Comments like useless, meaningless, madness, etc. are the terms that are condesending and don't help for productive conversations.  Some like to argue just for the sake of it and they can push people to the limit (which is why people leave this site).  Check the tone of past threads from a few years ago and you will see it was much different and more productive.  Why do you think guys like Ran don't participate in these discussions any more?  Look at the discussions we had with him years ago and you will not see the kinds of comments you see today.  

If someone thinks the conversation is dull, just don't participate on that thread.  There are plenty of others to choose from.  I said early on that everyone has a different intrepretation of design features which are a form of a hazard.  So be it.  What is the big deal.  The initial question was simply to discuss great shots that are not defined by one.  Maybe it should have been titled great shots not defined by a USGA hazard.

[Doug Ralston]

Darn, thought I had solved this picture download thing. Too small.

[JESII]

Mark,

This from your most recent post...

The initial question was simply to discuss great shots that are not defined by one.  Maybe it should have been titled great shots not defined by a USGA hazard.

And this from your opening post...

are in some way defined by a hazard!  

I’m sure some may think I have a bit of a bias about the importance of hazards to the game of golf, but can anyone think of an interesting or exciting shot that is not defined by one or more of them in some way?  

I should note that I define hazards in a broader sense than those few defined by the USGA.  I include all those "informal" hazards that help make the game so intriguing and exciting.  In the beginning, it was the hazards, whether it be a road or a sand mound or a burn or gorse or a railway track or some obstacle,...that had to be confronted and dealt with that provided the true heart and soul of golf.  The game would not have existed or lasted without them and that is still the case today.  Hazards provide the essence of great golf.  

If you wanted to talk about what you term informal hazards you could have just said that...you never made it clear. In your first post you ask if anyone can name an interesting or exciting shot that is not influenced by a hazard, and you went on to define a hazard as anything on the golf course that adds interest.

Can you not see the issue we have taken with that wording?

Now if you want to discuss interesting or exciting shots that are defined and influenced by an "informal" hazard we could probably have a great conversation. There are tons.

[Mark_Fine]

Jim,
I apologize if my wording was confusing.  It probably was.  I did try to explain what we call "informal hazards" in that second paragraph but maybe it was not clear.  

Maybe you would agree that another good way to think about all of this is to look back at that photo Sean posted earlier.  People should ask themselves if they see anything in that photo that they would call "a hazard" on that hole?  From the perspective of an architect, one would see many hazards.  From the perspective of most golfers (or using the USGA's definition of a hazard), there probably are none.  

Part of our reasoning for discussing what we termed "informal hazards" in our book was to help broaden the perspective of hazards.  They are also interesting to talk about and a good book needs to be interesting  

Sorry again for the confusion.
Mark

[JESII]

Well then what do you want to talk about...interesting shots that are defined or influenced by an "informal" hazard, or interesting shots that are not influenced by any form of hazard? You have already said, and I agree, that every shot fits into your description of having a "hazard" influence it...if we are to use your definition of "informal hazard.


Let's talk about great shots that are defined or influenced by "informal" hazards only.

Seans picture is pretty cool, but it's hard to make out where the green is and what it asks for. I would call that tee shot really cool and would say that ridge/dune line in the fairway counts as an "informal" hazard if the green offers a real benefit to an approach from the left side.

I would nominate the approach shot to #13 at Royal County Down as a great and exciting shot that is totally defined by an "informal" hazard.