[TEPaul]

I don't know this for a fact obviously because it isn't here yet but I have a great suspicion that come Open time at Oakmont, the USGA just may find a number of Lon Hinkle strategists on their hands (I can't remember now which tournament, which golf course, and which hole the tournament committee allowed the planting of a tree overnight to nix Hinkle's unique tee shot strategy).

My only hope is that whatever odd alternative strategies the Open contestants find to play the course to their advantage  that the USGA just allow them do it even if that necessitates some slowing of play for obvious reasons of players trying strategies via other contiguous holes or whatever.

Some suspect the Open contestants might try to drive it up #10 fairway backwards for the best shot into #11.

I suspect some might try a strategy down to the beginning of #11 fairway to play to #10 best (although I hear they may put that first section of #11's fairway into rough to preclude that).

But it would not surprise me at all if some players try to play #1 by driving it down into #9 fairway. It appears it just might give them a better angle at that canting down and away green.

And there could be another area or two out there such as left of the church pews onto the beginning of #4 fairway to play to #3. If they do pick up on these kinds of things and try them what is Oakmont and the USGA going to do about it?

Obviously they won't be planting any Lon Hinkle trees in the middle of the night at Oakmont for obvious reasons (if you could see the treeless Oakmont now you'd understand).

But my hope is they just let them play whatever weird and unique strategies into contiguous fairways or holes they might find and not do something really unfortunate or stupid like designate them with some Local Rule Tournament "Condition of Competition" such as interior OBs.

[Glenn Spencer]

1979 US Open at Inverness. I believe the 8th hole.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

Glenn's correct.

# 8 is a dogleg par 5 with some unique topography and a small creek crossing the fairway.

Hinkle's choice to play up an adjacent fairway made sense, although it created a safety hazard.

A possible solution might be to let certain areas of the adjacent fairways grow to rough for the open.

In other words, let the potential other fairway LZ be turned to rough, where it won't interfere with play of the regular hole.

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

If some Open players actually do ferret out that alternate strategy on #1 (#9) or #3 (#4) it seems to me it would be really funky and sort of tragic, and for a lot of reasons, archtiectural and otherwise, to put those alternate areas into rough on those holes just for the Open. For starters no on the tee on #9 would be able to even see any fairway at all. There's no question they can do that on #11 for some unique reasons on that hole, but I don't know that that method could be carried over well to the other holes.

Of course I don't really know the course well enough to tell if some players may actually try that as an alternate strategy but my feeling is even if they happened to do it by mistake just let them and the course be what it is.

The new Open tee on #4 is just miles back there and it may not even be possible to rough areas of the beginning of that particular fairway or they may be facing some of the problems they had at Bethpage with some fairway areas and a set up that makes the fairway too far out there for some players even with their best tee shots.

But maybe I'm wrong about the distances----someone should just measure them, if they haven't already.

My observation is just that---an observation about a year in advance.

[Chris Hughes]

On #1 at Bethpage Black lately I've been hitting it straight down the first fairway of the Green Course (directly adjacent on the right) which leaves me a clear shot of about 125yds as opposed to 165-185yds by playing the dogleg...really ticks off my playing partners and they won't do it.  But hey, it ain't OB, I'm going to take advantage while I can.

Well 2 Saturday's ago I rip one out there perfect and I have a friend with me from Darien CC with whom I play a lot of golf  (and we always have a VERY competitive bet) and he says "you do that on purpose?"  Sure I did.  He plays it straight out the traditional way.

Well damned if we don't get down there and just to the right of the tree line are some temporary OB stakes!  (I'm immediately 1-down, but in the end it didn't matter) Turns out the NY State Open was coming up in a couple days and as such they marked it OB to keep the players from taking that route.

At the '02 Open #1 of the Green was covered with corporate tents so it wasn't an option.

ES

[Chris Hughes]

TEPaul,

Glenn's correct.

# 8 is a dogleg par 5 with some unique topography and a small creek crossing the fairway.

Hinkle's choice to play up an adjacent fairway made sense, although it created a safety hazard.

A possible solution might be to let certain areas of the adjacent fairways grow to rough for the open.

In other words, let the potential other fairway LZ be turned to rough, where it won't interfere with play of the regular hole.

I read something about that recently and the tree did not prevent them from taking the route if they chose to for the rest of the event.  On the second day Chi Chi teed it up on a pencil and hit it over the tree and Hinkle hit driver over it the second day too.

It's probably grown a ton since and closed off the route...

ES

[Dan Kelly]

At the '02 Open #1 of the Green was covered with corporate tents so it wasn't an option.

Mickelson thought about it, though.

[peter_p]

Go east a few thousand miles and back most of a century.
Reading Patric Dickinson's book his chapter about Muirfield said most of the trees right of the fairway bunkering on the eighth were planted because Walter Hagen played out there to shorten the hole and defeat the bunkering scheme.

[Glenn Spencer]

TEPaul,

I imagine Pat Mucci can tell us the best, but I would put what you are referring to more in the Ed Furgol category as opposed to Hinkle. I was under the impression that Hinkle was cutting off serious yardage and that is what produced the tree. I have my doubts that a tree would appear at Oakmont to stop better angle seekers.

[TEPaul]

Glenn:

Although the title of this thread may suggest it I would sure doubt Oakmont would plant a tree on a course that basically has no trees to cut off some creative angle. That would look pretty silly. I'm just wondering how many players will be playing to holes from contiguous fairways. I doubt they'd do it on purpose, but you never know, and I can't think of a hole out there that would be cutting off an angle from a  contiguous hole.

[JMorgan]

Mike Strantz planted that tree.  (He was working for Mr. Tom Fazio at the time.)

[Sean_A]

Go east a few thousand miles and back most of a century.
Reading Patric Dickinson's book his chapter about Muirfield said most of the trees right of the fairway bunkering on the eighth were planted because Walter Hagen played out there to shorten the hole and defeat the bunkering scheme.

Peter

Those trees are one of few Muirfield imperfections.  Hopefully they will be taken out one day.

Ciao

[Jonathan Cummings]

Our own Brad Klein caddied for Hinkle around that time.  Maybe he knows a thing or two about this 'Syndrone'.

JC

[Dan Boerger]

I, too, would find it interesting if alternate routes were taken at the US Open. It sure could wreak havoc on the pace of play, not to mention some of the inherent dangers to the spectators. While I can't comment on Oakmont's decision to remove so many trees, I will say that I find myself coming to the defense of trees as "bunkers in the sky" and more frequently than I used to.

[JohnV]

There has been one change to counteract this at Oakmont.  The fairway on #10 short of the first bunker on the left has been narrowed from the left to the right edge of that bunker.  I was told it was to prevent players from hitting driver on #11 to that spot. In 2005, I played with a guy who tried that.

It should have little or now effect on the play of #10 as most if not all players will hit it past that bunker.  Some may layup short of it, but they will still have plenty of fairway to play into.

I doubt many players will play #9 up #1.  Playing #10 down #11 is way to risky given the slope of the fairway which would cause the ball to probably roll through the 11th fairway and into the rough.

Playing #4 down #5 might be possible but risky also if you don't make the carry or miss the 5th fairway and end up in one of the ditches.

I haven't seen where grandstands will be placed, but they could have an effect on these plays.  For example, a grandstand to the left of #1 green might stop players playing 9 up that fairway.

In the end, why does it matter?  People who care about this would probably stop players on #14 at the Old Course from playing it down #5.

[TEPaul]

JohnV:

I doubt this will be a problem but the thing that struck me when I saw it happen in a state amateur was on #1 and #10 the 9th and the 11th fairways respectively are actually far better angles to come at those two particular greens.

[Brad Klein]

Jonathan, I caddied for Hinkle in 1977. At that 1979 Inverness U.S. Open I was caddying for Mike McCullough. We had an afternoon tee time that first round and I just happend to be walking up the 17th fairway walking the course as Hinkle was playing down that line to get to the 8th green.

The USGA planted the black spruce that night. Interestingly, when the USGA had a chance to prevent the LPGA players from playing up an alternate fairway to get to the 14th green at the 2000 U.S. Women's Open at the Merit Club, they opted not to do anything, prefering that players get into trouble on their own.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I imagine Pat Mucci can tell us the best, but I would put what you are referring to more in the Ed Furgol category as opposed to Hinkle. I was under the impression that Hinkle was cutting off serious yardage and that is what produced the tree. I have my doubts that a tree would appear at Oakmont to stop better angle seekers.

Glenn,

# 8 at Inverness was a crescent shaped  (long dogleg left) par 5 with some features, including a crossing brook and dropped terrain, that made it appealing to play down the other fairway, straight toward the green, gaining valueable distance and perhaps a better angle into the green, although, the approach to the green from the other hole was impeded by a large stand of trees.

While getting over that stand might present a difficult shot for most of us, for a PGA Tour Pro I don't think it was all that difficult.

I believe that there was OB running along the entire right side of the hole, thus play to the fairway to the left of # 8 took all of that out of play.

With the large galleries that attend U.S. Opens, unless you provide them with flak jackets and helmets, I don't think players should be encouraged to play to other holes.

[JohnV]

From this week's Golfweek Forecaddie section:

After watching English team members experiment with innovative ways to attack Frederica's seventh and 18th holes at the Jones Cup (two par 5s in which drives were hit down adjacent fairways to shorten the holes), officials at the St. Simons Island, GA., club quickly planted six 30-foot oaks adjacent to each tee to discourage the unorthodox routes.

[Glenn Spencer]

Patrick,

I don't know when you last played Inverness, but in our practice round a few years ago, I was specifically looking around to see what was available. The tee seemed to be completely closed in and had nothing to offer down the left. I never got to see anything. I bogeyed it the right way a couple of times, so I would have been willing to look. I agree with your comment about the galleries and this day and age. What can they do though? They can't call it OB. I think putting a tree by the tee is fine. No?

BTW, I don't know if it is staked or not, but the right side is no good at all, although I don't remember it being any sort of a consideration or anything. Could be wrong though.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Glenn Spencer,

I played Inverness a few times three years ago.

The trees to the left of # 8 tee have all matured.
There is no prudent shot down the adjacent fairway.

The current 8th hole is a consolidation of the old 6th, 7th and 8th holes, recommended, designed and constructed by Fazio in the 70's.

Some of the new holes have a distinctly different feel and look versus the older holes.

The golf course and club have an interesting history, encapsulated in the club book which covers 1903 to 2003

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn Spencer,

I played Inverness a few time three years ago.

The trees to the left of # 8 tee have all matured.
There is no prudent shot down the adjacent fairway.

The current 8th hole is a consolidation of the old 6th, 7th and 8th holes, recommended, designed and constructed by Fazio in the 70's.

Some of the new holes have a distinctly different feel and look versus the older holes.

The golf course and club have an interesting history, encapsulated in the club book which covers 1903 to 2003

What did you think of the clock?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Glenn,

I liked it, as I did about almost everything at Inverness, save for the feel and look of some of the new holes.

On page102-103 of the Club's Book, there's a great picture of Lon Drving between the newly planted tree and the existing trees.  The newly planted tree wasn't a sapling, it was very large.

My primary complaint about Inverness is that there's no direct airline service between Metro-NY and Toledo.
I have to route thru Detroit and drive an hour or so to the club.

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