[Matt_Cohn]

What's the process of planning which trees get cut down, and which ones remain? Oakmont seems easy (you just cut them all) but what about a program like Olympic's?

Some factors I could think of include the age of the tree; the amount of sunlight it blocks; the effect it has on nearby grass; whether it's a desired species; location; and it's visual appeal.

Is it as simple as cutting down all the trees except for the ones that look the best? Or is it a complicated process that demands a lot of knowledge and planning?

[Mark_Fine]

Matt,
I am sure you will get all kinds of advice (good and bad) on this topic as it is a very emotional one and is seldom viewed in an objective or practical manner.  I will say that when we look at trees as part of a master plan, we have a whole series of criteria to base our recommendations on.  Whether one does a full master plan or just a tree management plan, this kind of process is highly recommended.
Mark

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Matt,

Sit down with a bunch of friends and get really loaded. Then make a list of all the trees that have messed up your rounds (did I mention you should bring chainsaws to this meeting?) and head out and start cutting them down. Try to be finished before the first group of the day is on the tee.

Either that, or you could form a committee that realized tree removal is necesssary to improve or sustain the architectural integrity of the golf course. In order to sell the idea of removing trees to members, the first step is to educate them in basic agronomics. Show them how trees take water and nutrients from soild and thus deprive turf of them; explain how shading of tees and grees is also unhealthy for turf. Having the superintendent in on this part always helps.

If possible, get old photos of the course. Many older members will rely on false memories and tell you "that tree was always there," or "that tree was always that big." Visual proof to the contrary will deflate their arguments.

If the club has the money, brining in an architect at such an early stage is not a bad idea. Sometimes a distance voice is the one people listen to the most.

Anthony

[Philippe Binette]

some would say, you don't tell anybody and you wait for an early morning after a big storm....

[JSlonis]

Matt,

At Tavistock we have taken on an extensive tree mgmt program over the last 3 years. Some of the factors our club uses are:

*Encroachment of playing corridors, which includes trees planted over the years with little regard to the playablity or impact on strategy.
*Health and look of certain varieties.  On our course, we were overrun with too many White Pines.  Someone back in the day must have got a helluva deal on these trees.
*Effects of sunlight blockage
*Effects on airflow, particularly around greens and tees.
*Opening up new vistas across the course that were blocked by unnesessary trees.
*Removal of lesser trees in order to highlight a specific "specimen" tree.

[Scott Witter]

Matt:

"Sit down with a bunch of friends and get really loaded. Then make a list of all the trees that have messed up your rounds (did I mention you should bring chainsaws to this meeting?) and head out and start cutting them down. Try to be finished before the first group of the day is on the tee."

This might be the best and most productive approach to take.

"If possible, get old photos of the course. Many older members will rely on false memories and tell you "that tree was always there," or "that tree was always that big." Visual proof to the contrary will deflate their arguments."

This is a good political and effective move to make and Mark Fine can attest to this at Cherry Hills.  I tried this once and had a gang of angry seniors chasing me around the course with pitch forks, axes, Hogan forged, Wilson Staff blades (man they hurt!) and other odd looking antique maming devices...it wasn't pretty

"Either that, or you could form a committee that realized tree removal is necesssary to improve or sustain the architectural integrity of the golf course. In order to sell the idea of removing trees to members, the first step is to educate them in basic agronomics. Show them how trees take water and nutrients from soild and thus deprive turf of them; explain how shading of tees and grees is also unhealthy for turf. Having the superintendent in on this part always helps."

Certainly a reasonable option, but it proposes that these people are able to listen, listen to reason and good sensibilites, actually get organized and attend a meeting, but the worse part might be explaining the definition of AGRONOMICS to them...that's a whopper

"If the club has the money, brining in an architect at such an early stage is not a bad idea. Sometimes a distance voice is the one people listen to the most."

Clearly the perennial favorite and best advice out there!  I am available day and night and very reasonable  

If all else fails, go to your local Stihl Dealer and make sure you have plenty of gas and bar oil

[Jeff Goldman]

Arborcom is an entity that does sun and shade studies on trees.  Their work is very, very thorough, and their presentations are outstanding.  We wanted to do some tree work to help out our greens, and wanted to make sure we took out the right trees.  Their report was very clear on what trees needed to come down, and what the results would be if they didn't, on a tree-by-tree basis.

We were also concerned about political issues of folks not wanted to lose trees.  Arborcom made several presentations at forums, and helped dissipate the dissenters.  One of our most renowned and dependable tree huggers was even brought on board.  The statement from him was, while he hated to see it happen, he realized that it had to happen.  That helped tamp down the issue, and I would highly recommend them.

[Joe Hancock]

Matt,

Sit down with a bunch of friends and get really loaded.

The sign of a great writer is knowing when to keep the prose to a minimum.

 

I'm always available to help with editing, by the way. I work, and drink, inexpensively.

Joe

[Kevin_Reilly]

whether it's a desired species;

In the case of Olympic, eucalyptus was declared an undesirable non-native species, so one of the goals was to remove it from the course.

[Mike McGuire]

A few ideas....

As you remove trees make sure to plant a slow growing oak or two in prominent but out of the way places. Now you can point out that you too are a tree lover.

Try to remove the trees and repair the areas in one day when the course is closed. Instead of using new sod cut your own from an area nearby so it instantly matches the surrounding turf.

edit:  use words tree MANAGEMENT instead of tree removal.

[Guy Phelan]

We have decided on trees that over time are interefering with the asthetics and or the playability of the golf course. Once these trees have been identified, we wait until the winter when the golf course is closed and our other course is open and remove the identified trees. Voila, springtime arrives and trees have vanished...

[Guy Phelan]

In all sincerity it is just way too controversial to even attempt to do on a large scale and consensus basis.

[Mike Benham]

whether it's a desired species;

In the case of Olympic, eucalyptus was declared an undesirable non-native species, so one of the goals was to remove it from the course.

The original tree clearing plan at Olympic was done about 12-15 years ago but no action was taken until maybe 4-5 years ago.

Interestingly, the purpose of the plan was to not remove trees to clear out and open up the course but it was to manage the existing tree population as the trees matured.  For those that have seen the aerials from the 30's and 40's, most of the trees were planted at the same time which means they were all going to die at about the same time.  The plan called for systematic removal of trees and planting of replacement trees to eliminate the risk of the entire population dying off at once.

[Forrest Richardson]

We are removing 420 trees from a course currently. The process went like this:

1.  Plan the remodel
2.  Look at the specimens (arborist and common sense)
3.  Work with the superintendent (from his knowledge, what is likely to be a problem, what is not)
4.  Create a plan showing those with root intrusion, those diseased, those likely to infiltrate infrastructure and those that are sacred (oaks in this instance)
5.  Present the plan to neighbors and the city (but be selective...they do not need to know about trees that are already dead in most cases)
6.  Remove the trees

[Matthew Hunt]

Matt,

Sit down with a bunch of friends and get really loaded. Then make a list of all the trees that have messed up your rounds (did I mention you should bring chainsaws to this meeting?) and head out and start cutting them down. Try to be finished before the first group of the day is on the tee.

Either that, or you could form a committee that realized tree removal is necesssary to improve or sustain the architectural integrity of the golf course. In order to sell the idea of removing trees to members, the first step is to educate them in basic agronomics. Show them how trees take water and nutrients from soild and thus deprive turf of them; explain how shading of tees and grees is also unhealthy for turf. Having the superintendent in on this part always helps.

If possible, get old photos of the course. Many older members will rely on false memories and tell you "that tree was always there," or "that tree was always that big." Visual proof to the contrary will deflate their arguments.

If the club has the money, brining in an architect at such an early stage is not a bad idea. Sometimes a distance voice is the one people listen to the most.

Anthony

Has anyone ever just went and cut some trees down on a course?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt,

The list Jamie cited is a great start because it categorizes the trees to be removed while providing the reason for same.

Matt,

At Tavistock we have taken on an extensive tree mgmt program over the last 3 years. Some of the factors our club uses are:

*Encroachment of playing corridors, which includes trees planted over the years with little regard to the playablity or impact on strategy.
*Health and look of certain varieties.  On our course, we were overrun with too many White Pines.  Someone back in the day must have got a helluva deal on these trees.
*Effects of sunlight blockage
*Effects on airflow, particularly around greens and tees.
*Opening up new vistas across the course that were blocked by unnesessary trees.
*Removal of lesser trees in order to highlight a specific "specimen" tree.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Has anyone ever just went and cut some trees down on a course?

YES,

I'm aware of a few midnight and winter expiditions.

[Kalen Braley]

Has anyone ever just went and cut some trees down on a course?

YES,

I'm aware of a few midnight and winter expiditions.

That reminds of the 16th green at Bandon Dunes.  Apparently David Kidd and his crew sculpted that green out in the wee hours of the morning to circumvent getting permission to do so by the site manager.  And the next morning, on Mike Keisers scheduled visit, it was approved.

Sometimes, its easier just to do it and ask for forgiveness if needed, than trying to beg for permission in the 1st place.

[Michael Christensen]

I know our tree removal program at NHCC usually occurs in the winter time....by next spring no one even remembers the tree(s) are gone....there is a process the super goes through with the board...once OK is given, the chain saws come out!

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