The toughest hole on tour last year was...

[Jim Nugent]

...the 5th at Poppy Hills.  At only 426 yards, the average score on it was 4.492 strokes.  Nearly 0.2 strokes higher than #11 at ANGC, which came in second.  

In a way, I'm not sure Poppy Hills should count.  Don't the pro's only play one or two rounds there each year?  Weather and/or conditions could skew the results pretty heavily, compared to four rounds.  

That aside, it's interesting that such a relatively short hole causes so much trouble.  Do any of you who played it agree it's real real tough? If so, why?  From what I read, the green is very hard, especially with certain pin placements.  

This suggests that length is not necessary to keep the pro's honest.  Are the design features that make the hole so tough feasible throughout an entire course?  Is the hole a good one?  Could any of its elements be applied on other courses, so they can stand up to top play, without having to stretch them out to 8000 yards?  

[JESII]

And do the characteristics that make it so difficult transfer to the higher handicapper, making the hole exponentially more difficult for them than the Tour player?

[Eric Franzen]

JES,

Played Poppy Hills twice two weeks ago.
Both of the rounds I managed to hit weak drives to the right which resulted in bad lies in thick rough.
I chopped out a wedge to a comfortable SW-distance in the middle of the fairway and from there up on the green (pin placed at the front to the left) and two-putted for pretty safe bogeys. Due to the rough I was never tempted to go for the approach.  

Some of the guys that I played with missed the green long on the left side and had their scored ruined after facing hard downhill chip shots.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jim:

I think that if the Tour was trying to evaluate toughness of golf holes with complete equity and fairness, then you're right, Poppy Hills should not count as the pros do only get to play that hole once (the tourney goes one round at each of the three courses and final round at Pebble), so they get no chance to get to know it and improve their play on it.

It is a difficult hole - many pros end up doing exactly what Eric did; or it also can get worse - miss even farther right and it slopes sharply down into thick trees and a ball can even go OB.  Conversely one can also get blocked on the left by trees if he overplays it that way.  It's also a darn tough green, as Eric described.

I do believe though it the pros played it more, they might learn to play it more conservatively and perhaps just be happy to walk away with 3wood or hybrid to fairway, 180 yard shot to middle of green, two putt par.  I'm guessing most hit driver off that tee, and that's going to lead to more bogeys than birdies.

But then again, maybe it's just a damn tough golf hole and no amount of repetition is gonna change that.

 

[AndrewB]

Tom,

Where is there OB on the fifth at Poppy Hills?


I'm glad to hear the pros struggle on this one too: it's gotten the better of me several times.  I find this hole difficult because the three main sections of the green are guarded by hazards quite closely which always makes you play away from the flag.  These sections of the green are separated by significant undulations (changes from one level to another) that make it difficult to two putt from the wrong level.  The green has water to the right and a deep bunker to the left.  The right front of the green is low, the left portion of the green is higher, and the back right portion of the green is separated by a ridge and then slopes away towards the back.  When the hole is front right, playing towards the middle of the green leaves one with a put that's difficult to stop coming down a slope.  When the hole is back right, playing towards the middle of the green leaves a tough putt over a ridge that's fast at the end.  When the hole is left, one has played to the right a bit and often catches the slope down to the right, then has to putt up a significant hill.  So, if you manage to hit the green and have played (and executed) conservatively, you are often left with a difficult two putt.  I've made my share of three putt bogeys on that hole.

The interesting thing I'm realizing now is that the location of the hole draws attention to the hazard on that side of the green, making one play away from the hole.  I bet I aim further right when the hole is on the left since I am playing away from the bunker, and further left when the hole is on the right since I am playing away from the water.  I'm having trouble deciding whether RTJ2 is really smart or if I'm just an idiot.

[Tom Huckaby]

Andrew:

Oh crap!  I was thinking of the THIRD hole!

So OK, never mind.  Five is tough because of the water and it also can get a really tough pin back right (which I'd be shocked if they use in the AT&T - do they?).  My post above was completely meaningless re the specific hole.  Re only playing the course once, that might have some value as a comment.