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Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2007, 12:43:11 AM »
I study my stuff

It seems like you have 17,800 other courses to study before you finish.

Are you in a hurry?

Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2007, 07:19:50 AM »
Jordan -
Why/How is a Ravisloe scorecard sitting on your shelf?

Tom Roewer

Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2007, 07:39:04 AM »
Ravisloe wa used as a U.S. Womens Open qualifier last year, and I think in the past.  I suggested to a lady who had worked for me to play her qualifying there as I thought it would be a good opportunity to paly an old style club for a change.  I have always thought it cool that "under the radar" clubs like Camargo and an St. Louis C.C. also host USGA qualifiers.

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2007, 09:30:45 AM »
Jordan -
Why/How is a Ravisloe scorecard sitting on your shelf?

I sent him one
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2007, 09:31:26 AM »
I have never played Ravisloe, but I can tell you Victoria National is anything but second tier. Everything about VN is first class.
Mr Hurricane

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2007, 09:37:45 AM »
In my mind, second tier is pretty lofty status.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

tlavin

Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2007, 10:49:47 AM »
Ravisloe is a pleasant, short and relatively easy walk in the suburban park.  It has several "nothing holes" that are jammed into an unsightly corner of the property, with a busy four-lane arterial street only a few feet from the fence.  These holes cast a pall over the rest of the course, IMHO.  I enjoy playing there because of the membership, not the golf course.  The recent renovation by Esler was long, long overdue and he has done about as much as one can to dress up this mostly drab Ross course.  If you want to use the word "gem" accurately in connection with Ravisloe, you'd have to be discussing the clubhouse which just might be my favorite in Chicagoland, but the golf course is in the lower tier of Ross courses in Chicago, right alongside Evanston.

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2007, 11:00:14 AM »
I grew up near Ravisloe in the South Suburbs.  At the time there were 5 outstanding clubs south of the city, Olympia Fields, Flossmoor, Ravisloe, Idlewild and Calumet.  Both Ravisloe and Idlewild dated back to near the turn of the 20th century and held important tournaments; there are references to Ravisloe in Alec Bauer's early work "Hazards."   At the time, Chicago clubs were "restricted", OFCC, Flossmoor and Calumet did not accept Jewish members, Idlewild and Ravisloe were their Jewish counterparts.  As noted by Tom Doak in his confidential guide, nationally predominantly Jewish clubs were consistently underrated because they did not get the same exposure as their counterparts (exception noted Quaker Ridge).  Chicago's demographics changed, the wealth moved north and west and the in city wealthy tended to drive in those directions or to Michigan on the weekends.  As a result, all of the south suburban clubs suffered.  Both Idlewild and Ravisloe "opened up" and like their counterparts continue to struggle to keep an adequate membership.

As far as the course goes, I'm not sure what is first tier or second tier and with all due respect to Barney, I'm not sure I care about the evaluation of someone who has never seen the course.  Ravisloe has a very interesting routing on a typically flat piece of Chicago area terrain.  Among other things it features back to back par threes of differing lengths with varying greens complexes.  The course was overtreed for a while but Dave Esler did a wonderful job opening it up and restoring the size of the greens and the shape and depth of the bunkers.  If one makes allowance for its lack of length, caused in part by the abundance of par 3's, it remains challenging due to the variety of holes and the interesting greens.  While its conditioning remains fine, it is not quite up to its formerly pristine character as the club accepts many more outings in an effort to cope with the difficult economics.  On top of all this, it is a fun place to play because of the variety.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2007, 11:14:19 AM »
Let's define first tier and see if I'm wrong.  I did say it is not first tier in Chicago so I might be in trouble is the definition becomes too broad.

Bob-o-Link is another course in Chicago that I have not played and it is a first tier Chicago club in my book...Ravisloe could be the second coming for all I know.

tlavin

Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2007, 11:16:39 AM »
Bob O'Link is vastly superior to Rav, in every way except the gastronomical...

John Kavanaugh

Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2007, 11:50:43 AM »
Is there a chance in hell that Ravisloe could be on anyones top ten in Chicago list.  I doubt that even Esler would have the nerve.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2007, 12:00:12 PM »
Let me say again so people don't think I'm being harse.  I think that Norwood Hills in St. Louis where I am a member, that hosted the 48 PGA won by Ben Hogan, was designed by the great Wayne Stiles and even recently hosted the 2001 Senior Am is a second tier course in St. Louis.  It is not a slam or a cut in any way...It just ain't St. Louis CC.

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2007, 12:51:20 PM »
Barney;  Much better in tone, reasonableness becomes you.  I'm not sure I understand the remark about Esler; I have never heard Dave toot his own horn and I have talked to him a lot.  By the way I agree, by my way of thinking Ravisloe is not in the Chicago area top 10 although I like it a lot and I place Bob O Linc ahead of it.  But, although I enjoy Bob O Linc its not in my top 10 as a golf course either.

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2007, 12:57:58 PM »
Like a $20 bottle compared to a $100 bottle of wine, second tier is often quite enjoyable while offering a much better value.  

I look forward to seeing Ravisloe and the changes at Evanston when it reopens later this year.  After seeing Ross' "restored" Hinsdale last year there is absolutely nothing wrong with second tier Ross in my book.  

Cheers.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2007, 01:03:43 PM »
Dan - pls tell us about Hinsdale...and do you know when Evanston will be reopening

see you at Ravisloe in a bit ;)
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

tlavin

Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2007, 01:51:58 PM »
Like a $20 bottle compared to a $100 bottle of wine, second tier is often quite enjoyable while offering a much better value.  

I look forward to seeing Ravisloe and the changes at Evanston when it reopens later this year.  After seeing Ross' "restored" Hinsdale last year there is absolutely nothing wrong with second tier Ross in my book.  

Cheers.  

Very aptly put.  I enjoy surfing the lower regions of the wine list myself, as I'm constantly in search of a bargain.  And you're right, there's nothing wrong with second tier Ross, but there's no denying that the Rav is second tier.


Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2007, 02:01:18 PM »
Paul,  

As requested here is a thread on Hinsdale from last year with a lot of photos.  I never did find out who did the work at Hinsdale.  Hinsdale has some decent elevation change;  Evanston has virtually none.  I believe they are reopening Evanston in July.  

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=24271;start=msg448911#msg448911

And here are two on Evanston.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=23837;start=msg438138#msg438138

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=25919;start=msg482826#msg482826
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

John Kavanaugh

Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2007, 02:13:31 PM »
Can somebody say hack job...If the restoration was done in the eighties please accept my apologies.  note:  This is not Ravisloe.

Hopefully someone can come forward with more information on Ross' involvement at HGC.  In the meantime here are photos of the restoration.  Hopefully someone can help identify who handled the work as well.  The routing is unchanged from the aerials. Par 5s and 3s as noted rest are par 4s.



Front Nine par 35.  

#1  heads ssw from the clubhouse.  nice hole to start the round.
 




# 2 heads due north using the pond near the green. sorry for the weird image on the next few shots, the camera got set wrong by accident.





3# due north from #2 green



#4 par 3 due east. nice collection area short of green hidden by bunker.





#5 dogleg left featuring the "Eleanor's Teeth" bunkers at about 250 off the tee.







#5 green on right #13 on left and #6 across water.



#6 par across the pond.  collection areas long left and right.



#7 long fairly narrow par 5 with a nice green goes to ne.




#8 heads due south. another nice green.





#9 heads west where it bookends with #18 green.  excellent green with significant right to left and back to front contour.





viewed from left side of green



Back Nine Par 36.  The stretch from 12 to 16 is terrific.  

#10 heading east from clubhouse.





#11 Par 5 heads due north.  Nice series of three bunkers line right hand side near green with another collection area behind green.







#12 Toughest par 4 on course.  Another terrific green brought closer to water.  





#13 par across pond.  Nice apron leading to green from right.





#14 Remodeled hole.  Green brought down hill, bunkers added/restored on left hand side. Significant right to left slope in landing area.  Fun hole.  





#15 very narrow in landing area.  Back right plateau on green very cool pin location.  





#16  Great 213 yard par 3 traversing from ridge to ridge.  So called "Andy Gump" bunker on right.  





#17 Par 5.  Unremarkable from tee to green.  Triple tier green best most interesting on the course.





#18 Nice finisher.  









tlavin

Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2007, 02:17:14 PM »
I remember hearing that Hinsdale chose an amateur to handle the restoration, but I can't confirm at this time.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2007, 02:22:57 PM »
I remember hearing that Hinsdale chose an amateur to handle the restoration, but I can't confirm at this time.

If he wasn't an amateur when he started I'm sure he was by the time he finished.

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2007, 02:28:53 PM »
I'm not inspired at all by those Hinsdale pictures.

tlavin

Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2007, 02:30:20 PM »
Remember, a lot of people love vanilla, especially in ice cream.  And Melba Toast may be bland, but they sell a lot of it!

John Kavanaugh

Re:Ravisloe
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2007, 02:35:12 PM »
Remember, a lot of people love vanilla, especially in ice cream.  And Melba Toast may be bland, but they sell a lot of it!

There may be a water shortage but a courtesy flush improves the environment.

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