Muirfield Village Rival

[Tim Rooney]

Muirfield Village (1974) set a Columbus Benchmark. Many quality courses have been built; however, none provide the grandeur, ambience and test, i.e. Double Eagle, Wedgewood, etc. Few moments, as I reach decade, provide amazment of startling experiences; however, a recent cart path ride provided such an epiphany. A former tour pro's design (L.Wadkins) within south Columbus furnishes such an encounter with routing quite expansive, bunkering somewhat less severe scoring difficult and over quality land parcel equal to M.Village. The finished product is not equal to M.V., however, a few tweaks  (bunkering/green designs etc.) would render this new upstart a formidable comparison.
Course: Pinnacle Golf Club; slope: 146;yardage:7,407

[Jeff_Mingay]

Muirfield Village (1974) set a Columbus Benchmark.

What about The Golf Club, nearly a decade eariler?

[Lou_Duran]

Tim,

The perceptive Newbie learns quickly that to succeed on this site one has to dismiss anything designed by Nicklaus.  Muirfield Village is too hard with its many forced carries over water, no ground game allowances, over abundance of trees, and Augusta-like conditioning which just puts pressure on all other courses to go way overboard with hand maintenance, water, and fertilizer.

MV is probably my favorite course in Columbus and in my personal top 20 or so anywhere.  However, if offered a free membership there or at The Golf Club, I'd pick TGC.  It is a wonderful golf course and club.

Have you played the redone Scarlet?  Any thoughts?

BTW, who is really the architect of the Lanny Watkins course?  I hadn't heard that he got greatly involved on the design side.  Where is the course?  

[Billsteele]

Pinnacle is located in Grove City, just South of Columbus off of I-71. I have not played it yet, but friends who have all indicate it is a difficult test (one of my low-handicap pals couldn't stop talking about some of the forced carries...he estimated one to be approx. 240 from the tips). I have driven through the property during various stages of the grow-in (it is a residential development club). From just a cursory examination of the layout, it does look hard but seems to lack any charm or quirk. In fact, it looks like any one of a number of modern golf courses. But my opinion is based upon a fairly superficial inspection of the property.

[Tim Rooney]

The Golf Club is a better Track, however, not as good a land parcel.Pinnacle is shockingly special! The following is my Cols rating: (1) M.Village; (2) Golf Club/Scioto ;(4) Pinnacle;(5) Scarlet;(6) Double Eagle.I"ve visited Ireland(x2),Scotland and additionally, a few US costal areas ,however, continue rating Muirfield Village #1!! Consider me provincal,but MV is the Finest!

[Tim Rooney]

I ,personally,enjoyed the Scarlet/Nicklaus bunkering and yardage increase!Though I've been a member of  (2) Nicklaus courses and played (20+), none compare regarding bunkering or challenge w/MV.The Pinnacle comparison is by cartpath only,perhaps, swayed by the moment, however ,the land/stream variety is real.

[Andy Troeger]

I went to the Memorial maybe around 2000 give or take (Freddy Couples won) and at the time thought Muirfield Village looked like the best course I'd set foot on. I've played a few more since (never MV), but I still think it would be among my favorites.

However, The Golf Club is my favorite course of anything I've played or seen. Very different from MV from what I could tell, but very special.

[Doug Sobieski]

BTW, who is really the architect of the Lanny Watkins course?  I hadn't heard that he got greatly involved on the design side.  Where is the course?  

Barry Serafin did the heavy lifting on the design at Pinnacle. If you take 71 south just past 270, get off at Stringtown Road and it's within a mile or two of the exit.

I have to admit that I was pleasantly surprised by Pinnacle. I would liken the piece of property to that of Wolf Run in Indy, with several holes routed around some abrupt ledges. There must have been a sale on false fronts during the construction, because there are at least 3 of note  

I think the course can definitely make a case for being the best of the 2nd tier courses in town. I think there are too many uninspiring holes to challenge any of the "Big 5".

[Lou_Duran]

Doug,

I think it was in Grove City where I ocassionally played in a golf league on a course up against the interstate.  It was not much and the land as far as I could see was featureless.  To compare the site to Wolf Run's is a great compliment.  Too bad about the cart golf at Pinnacle.

I was talking with a GCAer yesterday about Columbus golf and the subject of the second-tier courses came up.  I am assuming that the top 5 are MV, TGC, Double Eagle, Scarlet, and Scioto (in my order of preference).  What are the second 5?  I've played a very difficult course called The Heritage (I think) on the west side and didn't care for it much.  What is the buzz about it?

Is there a solid opinion on the new Scarlet?  I saw it during the final stages of construction (right before grassing).  The large scale tree removal made the site nearly unrecognizable.  I can't get Tom Macwood to render an opinion and I am dying to know how it came out.

The biggest criticism I've heard about MV is that some of the members don't enjoy playing the course because it is too difficult.   Many years ago, Don Claypool (caddie master emeritus?) told me that a foursome of Japanese businessmen jetted in just to play the course and after a few holes on the front side with each losing at least one dozen balls, the group had to come in for a more ample resupply.  I played the course in a CDGA open tournament and shot in the high 80s (then playing to a 2 handicap) without a ball in the water.  The cut was something like 82 or 83 and the greens were running around 13'-14' (according to Nicklaus himself who then mildly scolded the superintendent).  Inexplicably, the tour pros shoot nothing on it unless the wind is really blowing.        

[Doug Sobieski]

Lou:

I think the course you played along the interstate is now closed (was it a few miles south of 270 on the east side of 71?). It has been overgrown for a few years.

Of the 2nd tier, I think the courses in that discussion include:

Wedgewood
Tartan Fields
Pinnacle
Hickory Hills
Columbus CC

I'm sure I'm leaving out several (Medallion, New Albany, The Lakes, Kinsale, etc., several of which I haven't played), but beyond the Big 5, they are largely interchangeable. Heritage in Hilliard is "unique" (was that tactful?), and not a course I would include in that discussion.

Regarding the Scarlet renovation, I think the end result is that the course is back in the serious discussion about the best courses in town. In its previous version, it really shouldn't have been in the "top tier" debate (it was solidly at #5 for most people). It's now a nearly new golf course with a few "new" holes. I think it may surpass Double Eagle in your preference once you get a chance to play it. I haven't spoken to enough people that have played it yet to get a good idea of what people think.

Go Bucks! FEAR THE NUT!!

Regards,

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Well this is a timely thread.  It looks like I might finally get out to MV this summer.  I have had a couple chances, and havent been able to make it work yet.  It looks like this will finally be the summer.

Now I learn that I have some other new things to potentially see when there.  I have a friend who is a member at Scarlet and will definitely want to get out there I am sure.

Looks like I better plan a few days in Columbus this summer.

[Lou_Duran]

Daryl,

Schedule a good solid week if you can.  Let me know when you're heading that way and maybe we can meet up.  Crystal Downs in Michigan and DeVries' course up there have been on my "must see" list for a long time.

Doug,

That could very well be the course (it was on the east side of the highway) and probably no great loss in its current condition.

Of the ones on the second five list, Columbus CC is the only one I've played, and though an enjoyable course, not one I would go much out of my way to go play.

RE: the Buckeyes, I had a hard time explaining what it is to my niece visiting from MN.  I confess to being a bit apprehensive about the game.  Being off for more than a month and a half can't be good.  Hopefully the rust will wear off quickly.  

[Tim Rooney]

Doug----Did you recently move to Columbus? I was a personal friend of Jack Kidwell and Joined H. Hills (79") however , never did the tight fairways exceed N.Albany,Lakes, or CC Muirfield!

[Doug Sobieski]

Doug----Did you recently move to Columbus? I was a personal friend of Jack Kidwell and Joined H. Hills (79") however , never did the tight fairways exceed N.Albany,Lakes, or CC Muirfield!

Tim:

I moved to Dublin in '97 when Tartan Fields opened. I included Hickory simply because it's one of many that would be in the discussion, even if only for the interest in the green contours, which are really good. There are a few odd holes, but they are outweighed by some that require a lot of strategy, especially when the greens are firm. You have to think at Hickory a lot more than at most of the residential private courses in Columbus.

I'm not sure CC @ Muirfield would make the debate. It's an enjoyable course, but it doesn't offer as much scoring challenge as the others. Personally, I really like playing there as much as anywhere, if only because it gives me a lot of confidence that I can still shoot low scores.

I really think Indian Springs needs to be considered as well. If it were 20 minutes closer to town and maintained more like a private club, it would be in serious demand.

Regards,

Doug

[John Pflum]

Doug----Did you recently move to Columbus? I was a personal friend of Jack Kidwell and Joined H. Hills (79") however , never did the tight fairways exceed N.Albany,Lakes, or CC Muirfield!

I've played Indian Springs a number of times and have really enjoyed it.  I certainly wouldn't put it in the same group as MV, etc., but it's IMO it is a very good course.  
Tim:

I moved to Dublin in '97 when Tartan Fields opened. I included Hickory simply because it's one of many that would be in the discussion, even if only for the interest in the green contours, which are really good. There are a few odd holes, but they are outweighed by some that require a lot of strategy, especially when the greens are firm. You have to think at Hickory a lot more than at most of the residential private courses in Columbus.

I'm not sure CC @ Muirfield would make the debate. It's an enjoyable course, but it doesn't offer as much scoring challenge as the others. Personally, I really like playing there as much as anywhere, if only because it gives me a lot of confidence that I can still shoot low scores.

I really think Indian Springs needs to be considered as well. If it were 20 minutes closer to town and maintained more like a private club, it would be in serious demand.

Regards,

Doug

[Doug Sobieski]

John:

I'm certainly not saying that it is in the same league as the "Big 5". After those 5, it drops off quite a bit to the 2nd tier. I think Indian Springs would be in that 2nd tier discussion if it were presented (maintenance, reinstituting some features that were removed for cost savings) in a similar manner as the others in the debate. Very few if any of those in the 2nd tier require the strategy off the tee that Indian Springs does.

Regards,

Doug

[John Pflum]

John:

I'm certainly not saying that it is in the same league as the "Big 5". After those 5, it drops off quite a bit to the 2nd tier. I think Indian Springs would be in that 2nd tier discussion if it were presented (maintenance, reinstituting some features that were removed for cost savings) in a similar manner as the others in the debate. Very few if any of those in the 2nd tier require the strategy off the tee that Indian Springs does.

Regards,

Doug

Doug,

I completely agree.  

Did you know that they are turning the "new 9" into a housing development?  Normally, I don't like to see golf courses torn up and turned into houses but in this case I think it's a good thing.  I expect that some of the maintenance issues can be solved now that they only have 18 holes to deal with instead of 27.  

[Doug Sobieski]

John:

I played there once last year and saw that they'd closed the 3rd nine, and had spent some money fixing several issues that needed fixing. They actually had sand in the bunkers!! More importantly, they took out some trees on 17, thereby making it playable. Building that 3rd nine was a monumental mistake.

I didn't know they had any plans for housing.

Sobe

[John Pflum]

John:

I played there once last year and saw that they'd closed the 3rd nine, and had spent some money fixing several issues that needed fixing. They actually had sand in the bunkers!! More importantly, they took out some trees on 17, thereby making it playable. Building that 3rd nine was a monumental mistake.

I didn't know they had any plans for housing.

Sobe

Did they take trees out on the right side of the fairway in the landing area?  Those trees always drove me nuts.  Also, I remember that the 12th fairway was never in good shape.  Hopefully, they'll be able to fix that.  

[Doug Sobieski]

17 - They took out numerous trees along the right. It no longer requires a snap-slice to play the hole! There's really quite a decision as to what to hit off that tee now.
10 - Removed most trees around the green.
11- They removed numerous trees on the left so the green appears to sit very close to the lake.
12 - Not much change. Still VERY narrow.

All bunkers now have sand, rather than simply serving as long-term rock storage.