[Dan Kelly]

A question for the architects:

In the Rangefinder (and Yardage Book) Age, how can an architect create deception?

[Jim Thompson]

By invoking the old Angle of Deflection concepts.

[Kevin_Reilly]

A question for the architects:

In the Rangefinder (and Yardage Book) Age, how can an architect create deception?

Aren't caddies more of a hindrance for "deception"?

[Mike Benham]

Shorter flagsticks with stealth characteristics ...

[Adam Clayman]

Making that yardage a worhtless number is the best way to decieve a non-thinkig dial up my standard full wedge golfer.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Adam,

So you are suggesting wind machines hidden in the woods on at least every hole with visual deception?

Dan,

Is it possible deception works better with increased knowledge?  

When players went by eye, they guessed wrong if deception was employed, and missed the green, only to find out a few moments later, but perhaps not knowing why.

Now, they use their eyes and their yardage book and possibly SECOND GUESS one or the other, BEFORE the shot, no?  They may still not know why.

The only caveat is that the deception must be really really good.  Its sort of like the cops and robbers slowly one upping each other with new technology.  

For my money, the 11th and 12th at Shadow Creek are the best I have seen, and DID make me question how I could only be 130 yards from the hole when it looked like 160 or so.

[BCrosby]

It will be interesting to see if range finders become popular.

I'll be they won't.

Bob

[Tom Huckaby]

It will be interesting to see if range finders become popular.

I'll be they won't.

Bob

Bob - exactly what I said when this was debated at the time of the USGA announcement.  Few will use these, and any furor is much ado about nothing.  I really think it's proving to be true.

[Jeff_Brauer]

They strike me as just another thing to weigh down the golf bag.

If a course is reasonably well marked, or has GPS in the carts if they are required, why would I need to know the yardage down to a gnats ass?  I can't hit it that well anyhow.

I do have a 100 shooting cousin that drives GPS carts right on par 3 tees, fearing that he will mis-estimate by a yard or two by merely trying to line up the cart with the tee markers.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jeff - agreed completely - I have no need for them either.

And of course there are many golfers like your cousin.

I just believe few will shell out the bucks to get a rangefinder.  And even if they do, they'll either give them up quickly as a pain if they can't figure out how to use them (very possible) or otherwise move on to the next fad once they see it's no big deal, or get very good at them and use them quickly (as some posters stated on the other thread about this).

All in all, much ado about nothing.

Now the better question is how to create deception with so much information known... and there's a lot on that posted so far that's great stuff.  The more you can put in the better, I think.

TH

[JMorgan]

A question for the architects:

In the Rangefinder (and Yardage Book) Age, how can an architect create deception?

1. Sensation
2. Perception

Of all GCA's, both living and dead, Mackenzie best understood the importance of these concepts -- though he merely scratched the surface.    

[Chris Cupit]

It will be interesting to see if range finders become popular.

I'll be they won't.

Bob

Bob,

While I am an equipment Luddite and abhor where the game has gone the last few years, I can tell you the range finders are very popular both among the casual golfer and the competitive player.

We have allowed rangefinder use in GSGA competitions this year and the response is very positive.  The players love it and the officials absolutely believe they sped up play.  (I thought they would slow down play with players shooting all kinds of yardages but at least for now, I was proved completely wrong).

In my golf shop we sell two products, the Bushnell rangefinder and the SkyCaddie.  At first, I would not even stock the product as I saw no need for my average golfer to need to know whether he is 152 yards or 156 yards away!  (Our course has 150 marks on the paths and over 400 sprinkler heads marked to the center of each green!!)

Again, the market proved me wrong.  For Christmas I have already ordered 13 SkyCaddies (the G4) and at least 15 Bushnells (the expensive 1500 model).  I don't "get it" but golfers want this stuff for sure.

I'm still convinced this stuff is a waste for the average player, but if they want to waste their money, who am I to argue.

[Chris Cupit]

For deception I think the occasional blind or semi-blind hole is a great way to frustrate golfers and mess with their perception of how far to hit a shot.

Another thing I also like is instead of "framing" a hole with bunkers on both sides, which I think help a better player pick the correct target, I like one side heavily defended and an "open" side.  The better player is so good with his distances that I think the best defense may be encouraging his eyes to wander laterally. I don't see good players chunking shots short into trouble but I do see them become overly protective to one side or another when they have a "bail out" area.

[Adam Clayman]

Jeff, Not sure where the wind machines came from??

I was thinking more of a complicated design complete with a firm surface where the actual distance to the hole's position would be an insignificant number.

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