[Jeremy_Glenn.]

Patrick,

Don't get me started with par...  

I believe that increased distance reduces the options of play.  Or more specifically, reduces variety for the entire course, if not for each individual hole.

Largely due to par, incidentally, longer courses reduce the variety available hole distances.  Very sad indeed.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Pat,

Thanks for the detailed reply to my specific reply to your general question - which I think is producing some interesting opinions.

In order to take the discussion further I’ll take you’re test person who has to play a 230 yard second shot - meaning he's capable of hitting a drive off the of Tee 240 yards including run.

370yd = 240yd + 130yd    say Driver and 8-iron
470yd = 240yd + 230yd    say Driver and ooh what next??   try Driver off the deck

Yes you’re right with your “test” player the strategic options of playing to the green on the long hole are reduced to “hit and hope”.

However if either the “test” player can hit further and drive 250yds it already opens up more options for him to reach the green on the second shot - making your opening question a bit more interesting?

How about posing the same question with the distances at 350 yds and 450 yds with a 250 yd drive? Would you consider my answer valid?

[Patrick_Mucci]

In certain respects the longer hole offers more options, even after a good drive.

With the shorter hole, there's really no option other than to go for the green and most often the pin, maybe shying away to one side or the other depending upon the trouble and the other challenges present.

David, at what handicap threshold do golfers go for the pin from:

120
140
160
180
200
220
240

With the longer shot, my options are different - - go for anywhere on the green, try to go pin hunting, or aim to hit a shot that's not likely to end up on the green but that will absolutely avoid a certain piece of trouble. Perhaps with the longer shot the ball flight characteristics of the shot are less varied, but the broad strategic purposes available are much wider.

What is your current handicap ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,

Thanks for the detailed reply to my specific reply to your general question - which I think is producing some interesting opinions.

In order to take the discussion further I’ll take you’re test person who has to play a 230 yard second shot - meaning he's capable of hitting a drive off the of Tee 240 yards including run.

370yd = 240yd + 130yd    say Driver and 8-iron
470yd = 240yd + 230yd    say Driver and ooh what next??   try Driver off the deck

Yes you’re right with your “test” player the strategic options of playing to the green on the long hole are reduced to “hit and hope”.

However if either the “test” player can hit further and drive 250yds it already opens up more options for him to reach the green on the second shot - making your opening question a bit more interesting?

By the way, thet test player seems to be a pretty good golfer.

How about posing the same question with the distances at 350 yds and 450 yds with a 250 yd drive? Would you consider my answer valid?

No, because you're gravitating closer and closer to the superior player.

But, even with a 250 yard drive and 220 left to the green, what variety of options exists ?

[John Chilver-Stainer]

OK Pat the 250 yard Test player is too superior so we’ll go back to the 240 yard test player. The 470yard hole is practically unreachable for him so I’ll concede that an unreachable long hole has less options than a short par 4.

However I like your question and it could be fun to discuss the difference of options between a reachable long Par (3-Wood) and a shorter Par 4 (8-iron) for the second shot.

What can you offer with respect to

1) Test players ability and length to match this configuration?
2) Green Complex characteristics (hills and bunker placements)?
3) Side winds?
4) Lie at the landing zone?
5) Match play or stroke play?
6) Anything else of interest?

[Patrick_Mucci]

OK Pat the 250 yard Test player is too superior so we’ll go back to the 240 yard test player. The 470yard hole is practically unreachable for him so I’ll concede that an unreachable long hole has less options than a short par 4.

However I like your question and it could be fun to discuss the difference of options between a reachable long Par (3-Wood) and a shorter Par 4 (8-iron) for the second shot.

John,

I think you have to view the question in the context of shot variety at the different distances, 120, 140, 160, 180, 200 and 220.

As you get to the two ends of the spectrum, one could make a case for the diminishment of options, although, as I mentioned earlier, from just in front of the 1st green at NGLA I could use any one of 14 clubs, and with some clubs I could hit a variety of shots.  I think that flexibility diminishes as you move away from the hole because there's an overriding inherent factor that can't be ignored...... distance.  
And as distance increases, clubs are eliminated from the golfers repertoire, hence, the farther away from the hole you move, the more the practical elimination process takes effect.[/color]

What can you offer with respect to

1) Test players ability and length to match this configuration?
2) Green Complex characteristics (hills and bunker placements)?
3) Side winds?
4) Lie at the landing zone?
5) Match play or stroke play?
6) Anything else of interest?


I think all of them favor my point.

From 180, chances are, you're not going to be hitting your Lob or Sand wedge, or punching an 8 iron, or playing 3/4  
6-iron bump and run.

With increased removal from the hole, one inherent overriding factor must be calculated into your shot selection .....
Distance, and with increased distance, more and more clubs are eliminated from the selection process.[/color]

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