[Marty Bonnar]

Mark's Pennard thread has me wondering if the Greens Committees of Ye Olden Days (well, 1930s) got caught up in maybe a bit of a fashion/craze for re-modelling their crusty old OTM courses by the new young Braid whippersnapper.

There seems to be a whole 'generation' of courses with the same history: "Designed in 18canteen by Old Tom Morris himself, our course was extended and improved by five-times Open Champion, James Braid in 1930-something".

Do any of the OTM/Braid books correlate the stats?

FBD.

[SPDB]

Martin -
How are you? Happy Holidays to you!

To me the connection is not that surprising, and prefigures the degree to which RTJ would revise the designs of the early golden age architects in America (although, IMO, there is no comparison between RTJ and Braid).

Others:

Nairn
Brora
Elie
Lundin (Leven)

[ForkaB]

You can add Carnoustie.

[plabatt]

Martin
From C&W hare are some examples where JB did work on OTM's courses. It is important to remember the OTM passed over in 1908 at age 87.  
CARNOUSTIE OTM add 9 holes, JB did work in 1926 and 1936 in preparation for the Open.
ELIE Golf House, JB 1921
LUNDIN Golf Club, when Lundin and Leven split, JB added the holes away from the dunes, keeping many of OTM's work.  A walk up Lundin's 18th is a stroll through history as it is pure OTM.
NAIRN, JB 1938, added bunkers to Archie Simpson and OTMs work
SCOTSCRAIG, OTM, R by JB no dates given
And let us not forget PRESWICK, JB 1918 and the infamous elbow bunker on 4.  Followed again in 1930.

IMH Old Tom, Willie Park and Junior, Charles Hunter, Archie Simpson, and James Braid all practiced a UK style of architecture.  For example, who can name the newest hole at Crail Balcomie (1990's)?  At Ladybank, what are Old Tom's holes and the members holes?  If you played Montrose or Elie can you identify the architect?  At Royal Aberdeen, which are Braid's bunkers and Simpson's?  The answer is in the hallway leading to the Men's changing rooms.

Perhaps it was Colt who added his personal bunkering style at Muirfield, an orginal OTM.

The UK style emphasizes natural green sites, and a minimum of earth moving.  Which differs from the American style.  This may explain why Chart Hills, the Belfray, or Tralee are not in harmony with their suffoundings.  Kyle Phillips' Kingsbarns works becaused he used the UK style.  The Duke's course at St. Andrews did not work and IMH the new revision will not work because it is out of character with the setting.  The Eden's new holes (Donald Steele) are looked upon unfavorabaly because they do not reflect the UK style.

Peter

[David_Tepper]

I presume most every one here is familiar with the "James Braid Golf Trail" in Scotland. The Scottish Tourist Board produces a very nice brochure with info on the many courses Braid was involved with in Scotland. Here is a link for more info -

http://golf.visitscotland.com/jbcollection/

[Bill_McBride]

For example, who can name the newest hole at Crail Balcomie (1990's)?

I suspect it's #6 as I think that land was acquired sometime late 20th Century.  The hole does have the same feel as the rest of the course so I don't think you could tell by appearances alone.

[Andrew Mitchell]

FBD

I can't find that many courses with a OTM-Braid connection.  I thought there would be loads, but I found only 18 appropriately enough - though I wouldn't be surprised if there are more.  More importantly, there are only a few courses where Braid really worked on an OTM course, was sympathetic to OTM's design and much of the duo's work is still evident.  

www.baildongolfclub.com down in W Yorks


Ciao

Sean
I live in Baildon and never knew that OTM/Braid had involvement! How did you find that out as the website is silent on the history of the course.

Although it's my local course I am not, & have never been tempted to become, a member. Baildon Moor is common land and golfers have to battle (literally on one infamous occasion) with racehorses, casual horse riders, hang gliders, dog walkers et al for use of the fairways.

[Marty Bonnar]

Sean/Andrew,
that is one helluva website. A Golf Course with no trees and (almost) no bunkers is certainly deserving of further GCA analysis.

I especially want to meet (and golf with) the man who wrote:

"One hesitates in a survey of this kind to mention scenery. Not that golfers as a class are devoid of aesthetic sense. But if they're playing well they've no time for scenery, and if they're having a bad spell they're in no mood to appreciate it.

and:

"Nowadays a more humane (or some would have it, decadent) outlook prevails, and generous swathes of semi- or demi-semi-rough make life more pleasant and score-cards more readable".

I demand that Honourary Membership of GCA is bestowed immediately upon this Gentleman and Scholar.

FBD.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Martin/Sean

I hadn't read that before as I only skimmed through looking for any mention of OTM/Braid. Where did you elicit their involvement from?

The author of the website certainly has a keen sense of humour.  The hole by hole descriptions in the course guide section are also worthy of reading. I shall make enquiries to attempt to trace the author.

Wind is an ever present adversary when playing Baildon. You are on top of the Pennines with no trees or any other form of windbreak available. A gentle breeze in the valley below is more akin to a gale once you get to the top of the course.  In summer the conditions can be similar to playing a links course with tight lies on fast firm turf. One or two of the top local amateurs have been known to join Baildon as it is the nearest comparison to links golf in landlocked West Yorkshire. It gives them some acclimatisation of the conditions they meet when playing in the leading English amateur tournaments, most of which are held on links courses.

Whilst the greens are generally in good condition it is not unusual to attempt to seek relief on the fairways from horses hoofprints, sheep droppings etc

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