Strategy for the Alps Hole at NGLA

[Jeff Fortson]

I was just thinking about #3 at NGLA and thought I would throw it out in the open as to how those in here that know the hole think it should be played.  Comments like, "hit 4 perfect shots" neeed not be posted.  

Here's mine.....

Drive- Chew off as much of the right side as I can depending on the wind to open up as much of a view to the green as possible.
Approach- Depends on hole location.  If the hole is right and I hit it at the flag it was a push by at least 20 yards.  Always aim middle of green to left of green.

Just my thoughts.  Any other ideas?

Jeff F.

[THuckaby2]

Hit 4 perfect shots.

Oh man, that was just too good to resist.  Sorry!

Seriously though, my one trip over that wonderful course, I became too enamored with this stay right so you can see the hole strategy and hit my drive too right, into some pretty nasty stuff, necessitating a layup down the right-side alley... This gets me to thinking is the play down the right really the correct shot off the tee?  Is it worth the risk?  What's so bad about staying left, finding the fairway, and just hitting the blind 2nd shot?

If I ever get another chance that's what I'd do.  I'd try like hell to hit the ball correctly also, but that's a different question.  

TH

[TEPaul]

The strategy on this hole might be very different for everyone!

Just ask redanman! He actually stated seriously on here once that his strategy on that hole is to play the ball through the fronting bunker and onto the green!! Oh, let me amend that! He said that was his strategy but he had to use some kind of Maxfli ball to do it!

Now that's quite an interesting strategy, don't you think?

I believe I even asked him how in the hell he even knew he played the ball through the fronting bunker since the Alps themselves are about a million feet above you and the entire approach shot is totally blind even for 50 Wilt Chamberlains!

But who the hell am I to question someone's strategy?

[TEPaul]

Jeff:

As you know that pole has about 3-4 different positons across that back bank. My strategy would be to just try to hit the green somehow if the flag was on the right side and if it was middle to left try to only miss the approach to the left (and left of the green). It's a hell of a lot easier chipping back to a flag that's almost anywhere on that green (except way up right) if you miss the green hole high left. I'd much rather have that than a putt from the high right back down to a left pin.

That could be a bit like Hogan's strategy when he claimed he tried to hit his approaches to #1 & #10 Oakmont over the green. When they asked him why he said; "Because my ball is going over the green anyway and I'd prefer to do it on my second shot instead of my third!

[Sebonac]

No matter what side of the fairway you hit your drive on....you are going to have at least essentially a blind shot into the green...unless you are a very long hitter and can get it down the throat on the right side...remember when you go for the right side...for weaker hitters it is a longer carry over the first bunker....and you might fade it into the nastiness near the right trees.....just hit a good drive at the center bunker....place your second shot on the right center of the green as the green swings from right to left....unless the pin is top right...then you have a sucker's decision depending on your match and your lie....Of course Tiger played this with a one iron up the right...and a pitching wedge onto the green....

[von Hayek]

I believe one should go for the right pin position anytime they have less than a 5-iron in their hands. Two-putting from the middle-left of the green is too difficult. The key is using plenty of club relative to going for the middle (at least an extra club). You have to carry a swale and onto the green on the fly, unlike the middle of the green where most shots run in (something most people don't realize because they can't see it happening). Don't worry about over-clubbing because there's a backstop. Much better to be at the base of the backstop than the middle of the green.

My only caveat is that if your drive is to the left side of the fairway, the angle to the right pin is poor and then one should bail to the center of the green.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

I used to think biting off as much as the cross bunker as possible, to get into the slot was the best way to play the hole until I examined the schematic in the basement which revealed the hole to be straighter than I had thought.

Going up the slot, may give one a shorter shot into the green especially if the pin is on the far right plateau, but the angle is very uncomforable for almost every other pin position, especially when the pin is further left.

From watching the McBrides play the hole, I've found that the best route for me, no matter where the pin is, is to hit it just slightly to the right of the center bunker, close to the rough, leaving me an uphill lie.  This usually leaves me with a more lofted club into the green and no fears of inadequate trajectory.

HOWEVER, reaching the green in regulation is just part of playing the hole.  Putting on that green can be a trying experience with the ridges, plateus and bowls.

Hitting on the upslope in the fairway near the center bunker usually allows one to come into the green with a more lofted, shot and club, making it easier to properly position your ball, depending upon where the pin is located.  If the pin is far, front left, missing the green left and short isn't the worse position to be in.

The hole requests, but doesn't demand four perfect shots.

But, despite BV's claim, the hole must be played aerially.

I don't envy first timers, but the hole sure does grow on you.

[JayC]

I apologize for being offsubject (I can't comment on strategy at National :-/) , but is anyone reading Graves & Cornish's "Classic Golf Hole Design: Using the Greatest Holes as Inspiration for Modern Courses"?  It's quite good.

ALPS is the first hole listed in a chapter called "The True Classics".

They're par-4 ALPS examples are:
Prestwick #17, National #3, Tamarack #6, The Links #2 (NLE), and Oakland #5 (NLE).

Par 3's: Royal Liverpool #11, Magnolia Creek (So.) #2, Texas

and Par-5: Black Creek #6.

[theredanmantoolazytosigin]

The strategy on this hole might be very different for everyone!

Just ask redanman! He actually stated seriously on here once that his strategy on that hole is to play the ball through the fronting bunker and onto the green!! Oh, let me amend that! He said that was his strategy but he had to use some kind of Maxfli ball to do it!

Now that's quite an interesting strategy, don't you think?

I believe I even asked him how in the hell he even knew he played the ball through the fronting bunker since the Alps themselves are about a million feet above you and the entire approach shot is totally blind even for 50 Wilt Chamberlains!

But who the hell am I to question someone's strategy?

What I actually said, sir, is to bounce it over the bunker, it happens a lot as the front bunker is small.

[bv]

Actually the ideal strategy is a long drive as far right as possible to have a semi-blind shot.

That Tiger, he figgered it out.  He's great, isn't he?
AS for the bouncing ball routine, tell me when the course is hard that balls don't bound over the bunker. It's called chance or luck.

The French call it Bonne chance or good luck.  I guess they understand golf.

Le grande bourgogne ca sent la merde, and never forget it, fellows!!!!!!!   (Jeff M, maybe you can teach me the French characters on an American English keyboard?)  

[Patrick_Mucci]

How does one gage where the blind bunker is, and at what distance and what trajectory will it take to clear the knee high rough, landing in an area about 10 feet in width, that will allow a ball to bound over a bunker 5 yards wide, and stop in the appropriate location ?

Sounds like one consumed too many southsiders before teeing off..

Do you also find that bouncing your golf ball off the flag pole on # 18 gives you a better angle of attack into that green ?  

[ChipOat]

In support of Von Hayek, National's legendary caddy, Timmons, insisted that the far right pin was easier to get close to from the right BUNKER than from the middle of the green with a putter.

Being somewhat skeptical of Timmons' opinions, I determined that, as a more reliable bunker player than approach putter, I was a reasonable test for this proposition.  I have subsequently tried both approaches often under both "fooling around" and competitive situations.

For me, at least, Timmons was absolutely right.  When the pin is on the "dangerous" far right, go straight at it!

[bv]

Paidraigh

Liten up a bit.

[Patrick_Mucci]

BV,

I thought that was a light post, or is it lamp post ?

Especially the part about careening your ball off the flagpole at # 18 for a better angle of attack into the green.

Didn't you read about the Southsiders and see the smiley faces    ?

[redanman]

No, I want more more more!

Keep them coming.

[TEPaul]

redanman:

There again, how do you know you've bounced the ball over the bunker, as noone is tall enough to see that happen! The second shot is BLIND to the tune of about 50 feet!

I'm not saying the shot (or option) is impossible redanman but be honest, that's a helluva a low percentage option!! Why not just try to fly the ball OVER the bunker onto the green??

[redanman]

Given that I've personally seen it happen a couple of times and though it was cool, I must not know a goddamn thing.  

[TEPaul]

Well, redanman, asking you to explain how you could see your approach shot bounce over the fronting bunker on the alps hole is one thing but writing in your last post that the question implies you don't know a goddmaned thing is quite another!

How about one explanation at a time! How did you see your approach shot bounce over that bunker?

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul, Chipoat, Redanman, et. al.,

If the pin on this hole is on any of the upper ridges or plateaus, why would anyone risk hitting their second shot into the fronting bunker, leaving them one of the hardest shots in the world ?

Can you imagine the pin back, far right, and the shot you face from that bunker ?

Or on the back ridge, near the rear mounding ?

On this hole you have to be AIRBORNE ALL THE WAY !

[TEPaul]

Pat:

You didn't understand what redanman said about his strategy on the Alps hole. He said it over a year ago but his strategy is to bounce the ball OVER the fronting bunker!!

You heard me right!! Bounce the ball OVER the fronting bunker!! You figure it out because I sure can't!! All I know is if he's serious that has to be the most novel strategy on a golf hole I ever heard of!! As I recall that fronting bunker is anything but shallow front to back too! That would appear to be a fairly large bounce but maybe redanman has identifyed a sprinkler head or something to home in on just in front of the bunker!

My only question was how in the hell does he even know if his ball did bounce over that bunker because the shot is anything but visible from the approach area!

[ChipOat]

Patrick:

I said nothing about bouncing anything on anywhere.  I agreed with Von Hayek to go straight at a right pin and with both Timmons and Von Hayek that (at least for me) a miss in the right GREENSIDE bunker beats a 60 footer from the center of the green in terms of getting my 4.

Now, your inquiry to me absolutely infers that.....oh, never mind.