Massive Putting Surfaces

[Pat Ruddy]

I do not wish to particularly promote or deride any element of golf design but I feel that it is important that we keep our minds open to all design ideas.
I am well pleased with my big green at The European Club for many reasons and I was particularly thrilled when Tiger Woods displayed some of my boyish love of the game when, unprompted (who would dare prompt him in mid-round) he invited his fellow players to a quick long-putt contest after holing-out on the 12th.  It was revealing to see that he has the real fun-loving soul of a golfer and Mark O'Meara, David Duval and Scott McCarron needed no second prompting either.
Many thoughts arise from this big green ....
a) A fastidious greenkeeper came calling recently and almost had a fit when he saw it.  Plagued with "lack of pin positions" at home he started to count his options ....but crawled away exhausted and slightly delerious when he had identified over 351 possible locations on this green and had still quite a lot of ground to survey!
b) My big pet is 381 feet from front to back.  
So,  When the wind is behind the pin can be back; when the wind is against the pin can be up front.  Thus, the length of the hole can be preserved in all conditions .... without moving the tees!  Think of it ...
No need for tees so far back that some people can't reach the fairway.
(c) Holes are measured to the centre of the green.  So, with some 60-yards fore and aft, this was a fun situation for a time as it could be a par-4 of just over 400-yards at the front pin and still a par-4 of just over 500-yards at the back pin.   Par-4s over 500-yards are becoming common now so the rarity of this latter point is diminished.
(d) Such a big green causes some problems for those who try to reduce this game to one of numbers.  150 to the middle is good information most times .... but what if the pin is maybe 40 or 50 yards away!  I really like that one ....
(e) Some see long putts as "awkward" or "unenjoyable".  News for them .... the game is meant to be awkward and unenjoyable and torturing AT TIMES.  Otherwise we would all build fairways and greens like saucers!  The winds that blow around inside the head are just as important as those fluttering the flags.
(f) Some say that big greens are dull.  How so?  A big green can have rolls and run-offs to beat the band and an added dimension in that the golfer in a chipping zone faced with 200-feet of closely mown surface to traverse can become quite confused ....uncharted country .... pitch or chip or putt?   Have seen it happen even in championship play.
(g) So, some guys decide to do other than putt on a green? So what?
The PUTTING GREEN is back at the clubhouse.  The others are greens ...the whole golf course was known as THE GREEN not that long ago.
So long as they don't take huge divots close to the hole there is no problem.
History is full of chips on greens ...
Mark Calcavecchia chipped on a green winning his British Open.
Gary player chipped on a green winning a PGA.
Joe Carr, the legendary amateur, gave-up on his putter (which I now proudly own and look at on a shelf as I write) in the 1950s and favoured a 3-iron on the greens even as he won one of his British Amateurs, won a Walker Cup match or two, and also won the Tostal pro tournament with a course record 65 at Royal Dublin, hit a record 64 at Gullane and had a 66 in British Open qualifying at Muirfield ..... all using the 3-iron instead of the putter!
Then there was Ben Crenshaw, one of the greatest putters of them all, whose putter had an accident early in a match at the Ryder Cup at Muirfield Village! He still  managed to bring our own Eamonn Darcy to the 18th green!  That was a fun match....


I have to stop soon, have a dental appointment in 30-minutes,  but just a few more....
(h)  Why should "the green" cost more to maintain than any other part of the golf course?
Given modern machines and knowledge my thinking has moved to the level .... why can't we have the same quality of grass from tee, throught fairway to green and then just mow the various areas different?  (Please note I have not included hazards or roughs in this).
This is a big one ...
(i) The double greens at St Andrews are amongst the most fun elements of the design there and if they were not .... the canny Scots would long since have let some grass grow in the middles to create some cute shipping zones.  
They are such a nice idea that I have been pleased to introduce three at Montreal Island South in canada and two at Portsalon in Ireland. They have been well received and give VALID GOLF with a touch of Scotland to some people who may never go there.

Anyway, what I think, or any individual thinks, doesn't add-up to a lot.
All that matters is that the holes get built and people get out and drive themselves crazy, sometimes happy sometimes not so, on them.
 

[Pat Ruddy]

Phew!
Looking back at that ....
That was one massive posting to go with the massive greens!
Sorry....

[Tom_Doak]

Yannick:

The false front on the second green at Sebonack is mostly for intimidation purposes, although we also took it lower so that you wouldn't see the bottom edge of the green from the fairway.  Plus, we were channeling the 14th green at Augusta where I believe the false front is just as big.

Others:

Don't misunderstand me, I really enjoy putting from a long way out ... anyone who has played golf with me at Pacific Dunes or St. Andrews would confirm that.  (I played the 7th at The Old Course last year with a one-iron just to the left of the Shell bunker and a putter from 75 yards out.)  I would challenge anybody to a putting contest over 150-foot putts ... but most golfers just suck from that distance, so I think they should be given the option to try something else.

[jeffwarne]

Quote of the year-Mr. Pat Ruddy
and a great post

"The winds that blow around inside the head are just as important as those fluttering the flags"

I in fact have had several named storms going on in the coconut-simultaneously.

Do I have to send you a royalty every time I use that line?

[Pat Ruddy]

"I would challenge anybody to a putting contest over 150-foot putts ... but most golfers just suck from that distance, so I think they should be given the option to try something else".


Ruddy response......
How will we ever get rid of the 3-foot knee-knocker, the 6-foot ditto, the 9-foot ditto, the 12-foot ditto, the 15-foot ditto NO MATTER WHAT SIZE THE GREEN MAY BE.   The option for variety will prevail no matter what is attempted by design.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Yannick:

The false front on the second green at Sebonack is mostly for intimidation purposes, although we also took it lower so that you wouldn't see the bottom edge of the green from the fairway.  Plus, we were channeling the 14th green at Augusta where I believe the false front is just as big.

Others:

Don't misunderstand me, I really enjoy putting from a long way out ... anyone who has played golf with me at Pacific Dunes or St. Andrews would confirm that.  (I played the 7th at The Old Course last year with a one-iron just to the left of the Shell bunker and a putter from 75 yards out.)  I would challenge anybody to a putting contest over 150-foot putts ... but most golfers just suck from that distance, so I think they should be given the option to try something else.

Tom,

First, I have to ask if you ever challenged Pete Dye to a long putting contest.  I have never seen you putt, but my money would be on Pete.  I can recall him proposing we measure total putt lengths made when we played Muirfield together.  At the end of three holes, I had made exactly three feet of putts, and he had made about 300, including a 240 footer from the fw in front of the second green!

Of course, I was putting terribly as usual.  After the round, he walked into the restroom as I was at the urinal.......he declined to line up beside me, fearing I would continue my trend that day of "missing slightly left."

This is one of those cases where you have an underlying philosphy that makes sense - in most cases - but are willing to break it now and then.....which also makes sense.

BTW, most golfers also suck at distance control on their chips, so I don't see an option of chipping as helping anyone from that distance.

If you have only had a few long putts in several trips around TOC where they might occur 16 times per round, imagine how little one 200 foot long or wide green on a typical course would result in long putt.  Probably a few times per year per regular golfer, if that, which I think would be a fun story to tell.

However, Dan Moore's photos give the best reason to avoid their use - sooner or later some superintendent will wonder why he is mowing, watering, and spraying 20,000 foot of green when 6,000 would do nicely.