[Gary Slatter]

I think the valley of sin on TOC is a perfect moat, easy to maintain, fun to play over or through, perfect.

[Gary Slatter]

Pat,

Help me here. Isn't there a hole at Turnberry, somewhere on the back nine with something like a moat in front of the green. My memory fades me here.

Bob
[/16th hole has a serious moat]

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bob Huntley,

I believe it's # 16.

Gary Slatter,

A feature that one can putt through doesn't qualify.

Forrest Richardson,

If that feature was in front of the green it would qualify.

Dave,

It wasn't # 18 at Inwood, but, now that you mention it, it's the kind of feature I was referencing.

M Shea Sweeney,

I think the feature works well at Westhampton.
It's the first hole.
It's a very short hole.
One is left with a short but delicate approach to a multi-tiered green with other sets of problems long.
It can be a dicey shot, a birdie on the scorecard, but a potential round ruiner in reality.

Andrew,

You're either confusing threads or need to see a good eye doctor.

[BCrosby]

Pat -

I too don't understand why moat-like features aren't used more often. Not creeks or streams. But dry ditches.

There is a moat (dry) crossing the par 5 14th (?) fairway at Palmetto GC in Aiken, SC. It is terrific and changes the way you play the hole.

The double benefit of such features is that they facilitate drainage. Especially in clay soils. At Athens CC Ross called for two or three such cavaties that doubled as strategic feature and aids to draining problematical low spots.

They are easy to build and maintain. They can actually improve drainage where it is an issue. And they can add interest to a hole.

I assume they aren't built these days because they aren't sexy enough.


Bob  

[paul cowley]

Bob C says;

"I too don't understand why moat-like features aren't used more often. Not creeks or streams. But dry ditches."

Bob....could you maybe amend your previous post to something like;

"With the exception of those created by Love Golf Design, I don't understand why moat-like features aren't used more often....etc etc.

Then maybe I could take less time away from my family by not having to continually check the veracity of this threads posts.......

[Patrick_Mucci]

BCosby,

It would seem to be a simple, but highly effective, feature to create.

Given the right terrain, it might help with drainage.

A throwback to "Steeplechase" like golf ?  ?

The 6th and 7th  holes at Somerset Hills have the trough of a race track incorporated into the fairways.  

A fronting ditch, not unlike the one found on the 2nd at Pebble Beach would be unique, if placed closer to the green, or even offset, like the one at Pebble Beach.

"Alps" holes usually have offset, fronting features of this nature, albeit they're bunkers.

[paul cowley]

Testing Testing...could anyone read my recent post?

...when I was in the store the other day, the invisible ink was right next to the black ink cartridge refills...maybe I screwed up...could someone please IM me to confirm that they can see this post?

Thanks in advance.

Oh, and Patrick, the bunker at #2 Pebble is not a 'moat', but a pre existing drainage barranca that has a drain pipe below and is filled with bunker sand above....in major storm events the bunker reverts to its original purpose....which is moving water downhill at the speed of gravity.

[Phil_the_Author]

James,

You wrote, "I was waiting for Phil to chime in, but he's probably doing something much more productive than I."

It was a VERY productive sleep!    

[Patrick_Mucci]

Paul Cowley,

"Ditch".......  "Barranca",

They're essentially the same thing and serve the same purpose.

Was the Barranca always a bunker ?  ?  ?

[paul cowley]

Patrick ...in the beginning the ditch/barranca was mostly dry...so adding sand to its bottom was a good idea when someone first was trying to create an easy to maintain hazard.

I am not sure prior to 1970 when it became a formalized bunker.......I can physically document its existence after that date.

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