So what's the deal with Erin Hills?

[Mike McGuire]

From Shivas -

"To get the real McCoy, they're going to have to burn off all the native reed canary grass and plant."

From Brendan -

"Actually most of the native areas were burned off last winter, so the native prairie grasses came back real strong in most spots.  This is a frustrating aspect of the course for me as well."


Reed canary grass is not native and cannot be controlled with burning alone. The land that is now Erin Hills was never prairie. Pretending a simple burn is  going to magically produce anything worthwhile  is fantasy.

The good news is there are local groups that understand invasives and are usually willing to offer expert advice for free in most cases. Hopefully the owners will ask.


 

[Geoffrey Childs]

Noel

you said:
>I can't understand people who think Erin Hills is narrow..


Please read my long description above.

The corridors at EH, as they exist today, are too narrow.

Paul - the fairway widths and corridors are Sand Hills-like wide.  No way that Erin Hills can be described as narrow.  I lost one ball for the whole round and on a par 3 (#6) no less when I blocked my tee shot left.  We saw it bounce and must have just crept into the tall stuff where I could not find it.  Other then that there was not a single shot close to being lost.

Width is not a problem at Erin Hills. The problem might be if the USGA came in and decided to narrow the fairways.

[Phil McDade]

"If the Lawsonia management ever got in touch with the marketing folks at Reynolds Plantation they could make a TON of cash and be a destination of choice in the area."

Geoffery:

That assumes the Lawsonia folks want to make more money than they currently are, which I'm not sure is the case. Lawsonia -- not just the courses, or even the Links, but the entire place -- is pretty unique in golfing circles. It's overseen by the American Baptist Assembly, and does lots of Christian educational programming at the conference center there. Its church ties were one reason the course (up until the mid-1960s) was closed for play on Sundays -- not the kind of place, it seems to me, obsessed with making profits off of its golf. I think the Lawsonia folks truly appreciate what they have -- one of the premeir Langford/Moreau courses in the country -- and (its recent tree-cutting program as just one piece of evidence) want to maintain and improve the architectural heritage of the Links course. But they are -- refreshingly, in my book (as someone who plays it regularly; this summer midweek walking for @ $30) -- not terribly interested in keeping up with their Wisconsin golfing neighbors re. pricing and promotion.

[Geoffrey Childs]

"If the Lawsonia management ever got in touch with the marketing folks at Reynolds Plantation they could make a TON of cash and be a destination of choice in the area."

Geoffery:

That assumes the Lawsonia folks want to make more money than they currently are, which I'm not sure is the case. Lawsonia -- not just the courses, or even the Links, but the entire place -- is pretty unique in golfing circles. It's overseen by the American Baptist Assembly, and does lots of Christian educational programming at the conference center there. Its church ties were one reason the course (up until the mid-1960s) was closed for play on Sundays -- not the kind of place, it seems to me, obsessed with making profits off of its golf. I think the Lawsonia folks truly appreciate what they have -- one of the premeir Langford/Moreau courses in the country -- and (its recent tree-cutting program as just one piece of evidence) want to maintain and improve the architectural heritage of the Links course. But they are -- refreshingly, in my book (as someone who plays it regularly; this summer midweek walking for @ $30) -- not terribly interested in keeping up with their Wisconsin golfing neighbors re. pricing and promotion.

Phil

I agree with you and I applaud them for their work.  I only mentioned the possibilities for Lawsonia within the context of the question of Erin Hills' viability.  It was also a sort of back handed stab at the marketing machine that pushes Reynolds Plantation (and other complexes - even Tom Doak has a marketable quote in the Stone Eagle advertisments).

Lawsonia can stay as it is forever and it will be a shining example of public golf for others to emulate.

[Phil McDade]

I think it's a fair question about whether Erin Hills can make it in this market. I just think folks tend to lump it automatically with the Kohler/Haven courses, and -- if I'm not mistaken -- I think Erin Hills is trying to price itself significantly below those guys, and more in line with a place like the Bull in nearby Sheboygan. What is the Erin Hills rate -- around $150? I'm not sure you do the Straits for under $300 with the (preferred) caddie.

Interestingly (at least in the Madison market, and Milwaukee as well, from what I've heard), Erin Hills seems to have done little in the way of overt marketing of the course. Some press, yes, but not a big marketing push that I can see. Herb seemed to do much more with Blackwolf Run and the Straits, in part (I think) because he was making a big play for some pretty major events (he did land the US Women's Open there, and obviously the PGA/Ryder Cup at the Straits), and wanted good word of mouth about the courses from key folks. (Admittedly, Erin Hills is following in the footsteps of the Kohler courses, which received a ton of press in Wisconsin because it was really the first very high-end, regional-destination resort course in the state.)

[Noel Freeman]

Shivas-

They've already spent a ton of money on that course.. I heard at least $10 million before the clubhouse.. That is a lot of investment and a long long time before getting their money back.. How in the world would that property will all the natural movement etc cost $10MM?  That is amazing to me.
It will take a lot of rounds at $100-150 a pop depending on whether they are Cheese State locals to recoup an investment.. Lets say they do 30,000 rounds which is a lot that is only $3.75 million in revs.. I don't know what margins are in that business but the ownership will be waiting a long time perhaps to get in the black.. If the USGA goes there they will take up the most profitable tee times at the peak times of the year too, so that is no given!

[John Kavanaugh]

I suppose if Pine Needles can make it (though at a very low cost basis) Erin Hills might.  I can stomach paying $60 for Tobacco Road when at Pinehurst year after year.  I just have to question with the big bucks it takes to go to Kohler who takes a $150 day trip when you already have so many great courses at your destination built into your package.

Does Erin Hills have lodging like Bandon and Kohler where you can get stay and play rates...I'm seeing 15,000 rounds per year tops.  Not everyone in this business looks for profits thank goodness.

[Adam Clayman]

Demand is not driving the pricing is it? Was the place buzzing with activity?

Shivas' comment on Pasatiempo's pricing were the saddest comments I've read in minutes.

[Noel Freeman]

Erin Hills was not buzzing but again, it is a "soft" opening and October not July when I was there.. They got a lot of buzz and publicity as well.

[John Kavanaugh]

Barney, I think people will add it as the warm up on the way to Kohler.  

Like Sand Pines for the Portland guys...

[Michael Kennedy]

You're right Shiv, it will be contrasted with Whistling Straits  - but only because EH bills itself as an Irish links (which obviously it's not).  

I actually much prefer EH to WS - more varied approach shot options, genuine quirk, and an infinitely more "natural" setting.  EH just needs time to grow in, and for someone to remove the lone tree on #1, the trees to the right on #9, and the fronting bunkers on #9 green.

It would be really interesting to see how the people's perceptions of EH would change if it were on the lake.  I'd wager that Lake Michigan alone accounts for 95% of WS favorable ratings.