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Jason Blasberg

Blind shots and ridges as centerline hazards
« on: September 19, 2006, 10:30:58 AM »
How many here consider the use of blindness and OPTIONAL carries over ridges hazards?

Let me explain:

At Engineers there are several holes, namely 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 and 17 where centerline ridges create blindness on either/ both tee shots and approaches.  These ridges both restrict vision and thwart distance if not carried.

For me, these ridges are half shot hazards because if carried you catch speed slots and gain significant distance but if not you are blind and much further back.  This is most dramatic off the tee on 8 but also a significant factor off the tee on 2, the layup on the par 5 4th; off the tee on 5 and on the layup on the 5 par 10th.

On 6 the first ridge doesn't impact distance but the second ridge is like Billy Smith in the Stanely Cup finals, stopping everything thrown at it and leaving a blind approach.  Likewise the ridge on 17 impacts only vision as it is carried for the average length player, however, the backside of the ridge influences greatly the approach as it is often from a hook lie.  It's still strategic b/c the right side (high point of ridge) is quite flat, but close to lost ball land to the right while the left side is wide open but an assured hook lie.

So, all this being said, are centerline ridges creating blindness, impeding distance and impacting lie hazards?

I have to say a loud YES and perhaps the best use of centerline hazards in golf as they combine heroic and stategic elements, but at the same time, permit exciting recovery from the fairway if the heroic carry shots are not pulled off.  

The ridges are strategic in that flatter lies are found by laying up short of them and often severe uphill lies with shorter approaches if they are not carried.  A player may still opt to play are far up the ridge as possible to gain distance for lie.  Obviously the heroic element is in the carry attempt.

Thoughts . . .  and what are other designs that utilitze centerline ridges in similar ways?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 10:40:00 AM by Jason Blasberg »

mike_malone

Re:Blind shots and ridges as centerline hazards
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2006, 10:39:59 AM »
 Jason,

   Would you accept  "sloped fairways" also ?
AKA Mayday

Jason Blasberg

Re:Blind shots and ridges as centerline hazards
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2006, 12:09:41 PM »
If the slope is severe enough, it's certainly a strategic element off the tee or on a lay up but I don't think it's a hazard unless it impacts distance, similar to the way a bunker does.  I also think that sight line must be impaired so it's really the combo impact of thrawted distance and blindness that would rise to the hazard level.  Also, as a practical matter in order to impede distance the ridge will likely be severe enough to block vision so the two will most often co-exist.

Sloped fairway contours are great fun and the unpredicatability element is great variety but that's part of good design not necessarily a hazard IMO.  

Mark_Rowlinson

Re:Blind shots and ridges as centerline hazards
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2006, 01:24:19 PM »
Obviously, not having been to Engineers I'm not entirely sure what these features look like.  Have you any pictures?  There are lots of blind holes on the older courses in the UK.  Some are great fun, some are fun when you've played them a number of times and some are just a pain, and I think the painful ones are those on which the upslope is too steep.

Jason Blasberg

Re:Blind shots and ridges as centerline hazards
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2006, 05:08:32 PM »
Mark:

I'm hoping to compile a My Home Course that will reveal these features.  When are you next on our side of the Pond?    

Jason

James Bennett

Re:Blind shots and ridges as centerline hazards
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2006, 08:52:51 PM »
Jason

New South Wales Golf Club holes #5 and #12 (both par 5's) - poster childs for your theory.  Carry the slope and they are two shotters, don't and the second is a prick, severe uphill slpope over a high ridge, probably into the wind (one of the reasons that you didn't carry the slope.

A great feture, if you have the land/slope/ridges.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Sean Leary

Re:Blind shots and ridges as centerline hazards
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2006, 08:57:41 PM »
The 4th at Bandon Trails uses this effectively as well...

Jason Blasberg

Re:Blind shots and ridges as centerline hazards
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2006, 09:42:04 PM »
so have we identified a relatively unacknowledged form of hazard?  

corey miller

Re:Blind shots and ridges as centerline hazards
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2006, 10:57:44 PM »


I know of what you speak as my home course has four holes with substantial ridges that run perpendicular through the fairway.  Where we may differ is characterizing the carries as heroic as there is no lay-up in front of the ridges and it really does not make sense to do anything but carry the darn things.

What strikes me is that even though the holes were layed out many years ago, and very little yardage has been added, how relevant the distances from the tee to the ridges still remain for todays game.

On all four holes the payoff for carrying the ridges is substantial and also possible.  Too many course have moved tees back too far on these types of holes rendering the landforms/hazards you speak of useless and irrelevant.

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