When you love golf course architecture...

[Lou_Duran]

TH,

I was thinking that you passed up playing Riviera because you had a game scheduled with your dad.  Regardless, your original point is accurate.  You are not a certified architecture snob.

Regarding playing with friends, it was bad word usage on my part.  I didn't mean to imply that you only enjoy golf when you are playing with your friends.

I too enjoyed very much playing with my regulars at my former club, but only one or two would I ever take to Sand Hills or Wild Horse.  And talking about gca to most of these guys was a sure way to put them to sleep.

As to team play, I like a best ball and some modified alternate shot games.  However, if I am going to play a course only once, I'd rather play my own ball.  An occasional scramble with a strange twist (tees tipped, pins tucked, or "Monster" scrambles) can be fun.  Cross-country golf is not that much fun for me either.

[Tom Huckaby]

Lou:

Riv, Bel-Air, LACC - they're all the same, no?  

And that is all well said for sure.  We're not at all far off.  In fact you make a VERY good point about Wild Horse / Sand Hills... I too have friends I wouldn't take to either of those.  That is a very good point.

And I agree that if one is to play a course only once, it is better to play his own ball.  My take on preferred ways to play pertained to home games much more.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

I recently sat at a breakfast table with a member of Sand Hills..everyone with the exception of me was begging the guy to set up a trip out to the famous course....I must not love architecture as much as my morning companions.  I do admit I spotted the Sand Hills gear from across the room thanks to this site.  You guys are not alone in your desires..

note: Besides Sand Hills he has the good sense to be a member of a fantastic Wayne Stiles course...now that is a guy who loves architecture.  Hmmm...It must be a lock..

[John Kavanaugh]

Two questions:

1. Does every member of Sand Hills love architecture...

2. What kind of friend would you not take to Sand Hills...Who wouldn't love it...note:  I have met a member of an Colt/Alison course that wasn't head over heels..

[Tom Huckaby]

JK:

Those questions help, as I didn't know what the hell you meant by the prior post.

1.  Maybe yes, maybe no.  I'd guess most do, because the place is a bastion of great architecture and is very remote.  But some might not care much about architecture at all, and just like open spaces.  I'd guess their membership is diverse enough to allow many viewpoints.

2. The types of friends I wouldn't take to Sand Hills:
  a) those who's behavior I would worry about (it's a relatively laid-back place - but if I am going I am sure there as a guest myself - the last thing I could live with is embarassing my host, and sadly I have friends that I'd worry about in that context)
  b) those who prefer parkland courses and would rather slit their wrists than walk (now I know SH allows carts, but to me the point of the place is to walk and the course plays better that way - riding is fine and I love it for 2nd/3rd rounds of the day there - but this is more an attitude they have, such that they might not find SH their cup of tea, but more importantly would really miss the point of the place)
  c) those who could never get past the geographical location of the place.  "What?  You want me to go to NEBRASKA to play golf?  Drive 6 hours from Denver for god's sake?  Are you insane?"  I have plenty of friends like that as well.

I love Sand Hills, god help me I do love it so. But hopefully this answers your questions.  I would not expect all of my friends to love it.  And in a way, that's another thing that makes it so damn cool and special.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

Huck,

Would you not take any of your friends that go to Bandon to Sand Hills...don't they all love architecture.

[Tom Huckaby]

JK:

Most of those would enjoy Sand Hills.  But some would complain about the distance/geopgraphy... and some I would definitely put in the "worry about behavior" category.

Bandon is a resort, and if they misbehave, hell that's their problem.

Sand Hills is a private club at which I am a guest... if they misbehave, it's my problem.  That is assuming it's through me they got there - which I take is the assumption here.

In any case, no, only a few of those who went to Bandon with me love architecture... in fact I'd say 2-3 max, including me... the others are there for the comraderie, ocean views, etc.  And there's nothing wrong with that at all.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

Bandon is a resort, and if they misbehave, hell that's their problem.

For such a nice guy that is one of the rudest things ever said on this site.    

[Tom Huckaby]

Oh jeez, give me a break, John.  Of course I don't condone misbehavior anywhere.  You know damn well what I meant...

[John Kavanaugh]

Another question:

I just peeked and I have over one dozen golf course architecture books within arms reach of my desk here at work....Does that mean I love golf course architecture.  I'm really curious who these people are..

[George Pazin]

Jax, since we know you don't read architecture books, does that mean purchase said books as a philanthropic approach? Or were they - gasp - freebies?

I love playing with strangers at my local Doak 3-ish muni. I love playing with gca'ers at Doak 8+'s. I love playing.

But I don't quite understand the logical leap between all players enjoy and desire better courses and all players love architecture.

That's not the case at all with my good friends, and they are generally obsessive golfers who are highly educated.

[Guy Nicholson]

So no, games with friends who don't know a redan from a sedan - which happen often for me - are absolutely no less fun than games with architecture buffs - in some ways, the former are MORE fun as we actually play and bet and compete, rather than dissect mounds and the like.    But again, it's about the playing.

And the last time I turned down a golf game anywhere and with anyone for which I actually had a kitchen pass would have been the first.  I will - and do - play anywhere.  

This is my first post and nobody here knows me yet, so this seems like as good a post as any to chime in. Put me in the above category.

I play with friends and family, and most of them can't tell the difference between Stanley Thompson and Hunter S. Thompson. My dad once rolled his eyes when I tried to explain the concept of a biarritz - and this is a man who most would say takes his golf fairly seriously.

Still, I think I'm with Tom. I played both of the courses below last year - seriously - and enjoyed them both for what they're worth.

http://town.ignace.on.ca/images/golfing.jpg
http://www.bandondunesgolf.com/pacific_hole1.cfm

[John Kavanaugh]

George,

I believe the guys who have signed and sent me a few books may remember that I was never requested to pay...as in a gift or commonly known as free...counting a birthday gift or two that only accounts for 5 of the books currently within arms reach...I was thinking...I love free golf, free food and an open bar...and come to think of it..surprisingly free books.  Does the free copy of Scotland's Gift count I got when I joined the Raynor Society...

[John Kavanaugh]

I don't think I or most people on this board love golf course architecture more than our friends...I just think we have more opportunities to act like we do..

[Mike_Cirba]

I love free golf, free food and an open bar...and come to think of it..surprisingly free books.  

Congratulations, Obi-John.

Your journey to the Dark Side is now complete.