Tall Grass - Long Island

[FORTSONATOR]

Has anyone else here ever played this Gil Hanse course out in Suffolk County on Long Island?

I played 36 holes there yesterday and absolutely loved the course.  In my opinion it is the best public course built on Long Island in the last 5 years.

Jeff F.

[Jeff_Lewis]

Jeff,

I played it a couple of years ago and thought it was terrific. My recollection was that he probably could have used another 10 or 15 acres, but that overall it was a very successful effort. Prices are supposed to be quite reasonable now, too, I hear. I think it is by far the best public option for hampton-goers. It is only about 5-10 minutes further than LI National (RTJ,JR) and a bit better.

[Matt_Ward]

FORTSONATOR:

Tall Grass is a nice layout but if you ever get the opportunity you need to play Gil's work on the left coast -- Rustic Canyon. It's a full step ahead of Tall Grass IMHO.

Regarding public on the Island in the last five years I think a case can be made for Harbor Links (Port Washington area) as being quite good given what was there and what is there now.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Jeff,

I have always enjoyed the Shinnecock vs National debate (given 10 rounds at either I personally would play 7 at National), and I think you extend that same type of debate to Tall Grass (the public National) vs Long Island National (the public Shinnecock). When I first saw Tall Grass, it immediately reminded me of Merion, and I had never heard of Gil Hanse at the time.

Tall Grass:

. Gil Hanse
. interesting greens
. classic bunkering
. a little short, with a little quirk
. challenging enough for the better player (you tell me, I do not qualify)

LI National

. RTJ III
. a tougher course
. a mix of holes (a few parkland vs open links style)
. more challenging off the tee
. a couple of questionable holes (13, 12)

Given the same 10 rounds, i would take 6 at Tall Grass.

[Jeff Fortson]

Mike,

I agree with you re: Tall Grass vs. Long Island National...

except I'd play 9 out of 10 at Tall Grass.  

I have some fond memories of Long Island National, such as, getting past first stage of the U.S. Open qualifying in 2001 there.  Yet, I'd still play Tall Grass 9 out of 10 over it.  

One thing I thought was really out of place at Tall Grass is the lake to the right of the 15th fairway.  It seemed to be an odd feature on such a great links style design.  I'm sure it's there for irrigation or other maintenance reasons, but it still is the only "eye sore" on the course for me.  #16 is one of the best par 4's I've played anywhere.  There are a handfull of really good par 4's and the par 3's are all good as well.  The three par 5's are the course's weak point both visually and score protection wise.  Two of them are very reachable in two and the third is, as well, if the wind isn't into your face.  #1 is a nice and relatively easy start.  I hit Driver 7-iron into this 510 yard par 5 yesterday.  #9 would be great if they hadn't built that containment mounding on the left.  I know it's there for safety from the driving range but it kind of sours the hole.  #15, like I said, has that lake to the right which just seems out of place.  Even with these negatives, I thought that the Par 5's were still good enough to make this course an overall delight to play.

Long Island National has some holes that need some Daisy Cutters to fall on them.  I think #'s 4, 12 & 13 need to be leveled and redone.  The course has some good moments with #'s 2, 5 & 14 being good holes.  Overall, this course leaves me thinking it has too many multiple personalities.  It felt like the course didn't have a soul or any aura to it.

Both of these courses are the perfect example of what I mentioned in another thread.....

Tall Grass is not as PENAL off the tee but the green complexes are fantastic, whereas, Long Island National challenges you heavily off the tee but the green complexes put me to sleep for the most part.  Therefore, that makes Tall Grass the better course, in my opinion.  By far.

Jeff F.

[Pete Lavallee]

Jeff;
While attending last year's US Open we only had time for one round while on Long Island, I'm sure glad we picked Tall Grass! After playing Rustic Canyon I just had to see what was up in that old sod farm and I sure wasn't dissappointed. Gil has a great formula for making public golf both interesting and fun for all; heck even a "skilled player" like yourself enjoyed it. Rustic does have the benefit of the natural undulations of the canyon left intact, but the masive earth movement at Tall Grass is very well done; steep ledges instead of those nasty containment mounds seperate the holes and provide for some variety of elevation. I loved the little pot bunker smack dab in the middle of the par 5 9th, just where you'de like to leave your drive. There was also a nasty little pot bunker hiding behind the back pin postion of one of the short par 4's, to snare the bold play the goes just a little too far. But in the end it's the interest and thought put into the green complexes that make the course soo much fun for all levels of golfers. Is the club still suggesting that the area's of tall grass off the fairways be played as a lateral water hazard? This did seem somewhat contrary to the spirit of the game, but does limit searches and eliminate the distance penalty; overall a very small complaint about a great public facility.

[johnnyjumpstart]

I have played Tall Grass at least a dozen times. I don't think it's by any means a "great" course>what it is a "sporty' and fun course which makes you think a off the tees. The fault is that the overall length is too short to ever be considered a championship layout. Of the new courses on the Island I would definitely rank the "Woods" course at Cherry Creek in Riverhead and "Great Rock" in Wadding River ahead of it. As for Long Island National I agree that it's overrated in terms of layout, but the biggest fault is that it's subject to uncomfortably high winds 5 out of 7 days making it often times ridiculous to play. john

[Mike_Sweeney]

except I'd play 9 out of 10 at Tall Grass.  

Jeff,

Just curious, how about National vs Shinnecock?

[Mike_Sweeney]

but the biggest fault is that it's subject to uncomfortably high winds 5 out of 7 days making it often times ridiculous to play. john

Johnny,

If you look at the big size of the greens and the width of many fairways at LI National in comparison to the non-Black courses at Bethpage, I do think that RTJ III and Don Knott his assistant did a good job of designing for the wind, however most of the holes do run either SW or NE. Needless to say, it is the same wind at Shinnecock, National and Maidstone which often gets praised here, so it is probably unfair to knoch it at LI National. Of course if you put a member of a West Coast of Ireland course on any of those courses, my guess he woulld characterize their respective winds as "a wee bit of wind".

I haven't played CC Woods or Great Rock, but my impression is that they are fairly tree lined with flatter putting greens than Tall Grass

[FORTSONATOR]

johnnyjumpstart,

I played the Woods last year in a tournament and I didn't think much of it.  I felt that there were a couple really good holes but too many holes were severely encroached by trees, in my opinion.  Hence, the name it has I guess.  Too many holes had very little strategy and lines of play absolutely dictated by trees, OB, and bunkers that left no options for me.  Overall, I would play there again but I wouldn't if I had to pay for it.  I can see how some would like it since it is challenging off the tee and it has some longer par 4's but I guess it just didn't excite me enough and made me feel that I had no choice in strategy.


Mike Sweeney,

That is a tough question to answer.  I would have to say that it's an even split 5 for NGLA and 5 for Shinnecock.

If I were preparing for a big tournament or wanted to test my game on a big setting I would play Shinnecock a little more.

If I wanted to take people somewhere they could really enjoy themselves and play a friendly Nassau or maybe to get ready for a match play event I would play NGLA a little more.  

They are both perfect examples of two distinctly different courses that are ideal in the type of course they are built to be.  I love both of them and they are both in my personal Top 5.

Jeff F.

[Jeff_Lewis]

If I had a hundred rounds of public golf to play and divide them up between tallgrass, great rock and li national i would play 90 at tallgrass, and 10 at li national.i don't think gr is really in the same league.