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tlavin

Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2006, 12:50:57 PM »
The eleventh hole at Olympia Fields (South) has a double oak in the middle of the fairway.  The hole is 310 yards, with a creek about forty yards in front of the green.  The tree is about 110 yards from the green.

The 18th hole at Butler National has a huge tree about 150 yards from the green on the 465 yard hole.  

I hate the Butler tree and would pay to cut it down.

I like the Olympia tree because it truly makes the hole.

I'm a hypocrite, I suppose, but so be it...

It does raise the question, though: Is a tree in the middle of the fairway an interesting quirk on a "classic" course and a fricking nuisance on a modern course?

Wayne Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2006, 11:18:37 PM »
 Terry-  here I go again.  I'm scheduled to play Butler for the first time in early Oct.

tonyt

Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2006, 05:00:57 PM »
One of the reasons trees in the middle of a fairway can be hard to accept is due to a mismatch in golf design principles. In other words, when it doesn't work, it isn't the tree's fault in isolation.

An old principle that myself and I believe a few others on here hold dearly is that of a golf hole being designed so that there is a teeing ground and a putting green, and obstacles are often in the player's way between them, so that a golfer must negotiate the best manner in which to take fewer strokes to get the ball in the hole.

A more common modern principle is that the route between the teeing ground and a putting green is a corridor of safety, and that obstacles and hazards are strategically positioned lining this corridor to penalise the wayward.

Both of these principles have resulted in some of the finest golf holes, but holes cannot easily work well when they try and marry both. Some of the examples of trees in fairways here are on holes that are truly designed as corridor holes, and so it is the inneffective use of the central obstacles and required different pathways that is as much to blame as the tree.

gookin

Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2006, 05:46:09 PM »
I have always thought 17 at Cypress qualified as trees in the middle of the fairway.  

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2006, 06:02:41 PM »
Holly Hills in Maryland has a tree in the middle of the fairway on a 496 yard par 4. There is OB to the right and a stream to the left. It is easily one of the stupidest holes I have ever played. Ever.
Mr Hurricane

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2006, 06:12:51 PM »
I believe it was at Palisades GC outside Orlando that I encountered the strangest tree in the middle of fairway design. As I recall it was a par 5, not readily reachable at the time (certainly for me and marginally for the longer players I played with) and the large Oak (I believe) was dead center of the fairway at about the 90 yard mark. Mind you this was dogleg left around a lake and left no real position to which to layup.

The decision for those of us that day was to:

1. Layup to 130ish and leave a shot directly over the tree or
2. Try to run a ball just past the tree on the ground

Interesting options in my book.

Other such tree I recall was Hole #8 at Moundsville CC in West Virginia. 400 yard par 4 with tree at about 225-240?

 

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2006, 07:55:33 PM »
For the 'best' demonstration of 'trees in the middle of fairways', one must see Rich Harvest Farms.

Not only are there two four pars with trees in the middle (one even has a plaque where Sam Snead hit into the base of it), but there is also a three par, that from the back tees, plays over a tree!

Amazing stuff!!!

"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Wayne Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2006, 10:56:27 AM »
Tony-  I really enjoyed your comments and explanation. Thakyou.

 Paul-  Rich Harvest is certainly a unique experience, and I did like that hole with the Sam Snead tree. For those who have not been there,  Jerry Rich, who invented bar coding bought about 1800 acres 1 hour outside of Chicago in Sugar Grove and decided to build and design his own golf course. He started with 6 holes that you could play as par 3,4,or 5.  Eventually he made it an 18 hole course which works for the most part, but is a little disjointed. Overall I enjoyed the course and the whole experience there is great. Jerry is a wonderful host and is an extremely charitable guy.  It's probably more interesting to see his huge car collection which I think includes something like 50 Ferraris.    

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2006, 11:15:52 PM »
I'm playing a course this Saturday that comes recommended by a co-worker.  I was just looking at the web site, and there are two holes with trees smack in the middle of the fairway.

I'm keeping an open mind, but the xourse preview made me think of this thread.

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2006, 11:39:37 PM »
I can't let this go by - this is one of the worst examples of bunker design supposedly tying in with the non-existant green design I've seen on this site.  :P
Does this course have a designer? Of course if you want to avoid the bunker you can ricochet your approach off the shack.

John, you are entitled to your opinion. Pajaro is no classic design, but stand in the 6th fairway with a short iron in your hand, a quartering breeze and a bunker appearing as large as the green, is birdie within your reach?
The course does have a designer - Floyd MacFarland - local pro from the 1920's. The greens are excellent and there are reverse cant fairways.
Come try it. And, for the second time today, break par and it's on me, if you can't...say no more.

« Last Edit: September 15, 2006, 08:04:00 AM by Peter Galea »
"chief sherpa"

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2006, 11:43:01 PM »
And...the ricochet off the shack is one of the coolest, boldest, shots there is.
BTW: Tom Watson ricocheted one off the wall at the Road Hole. Does that course have a designer?
"chief sherpa"

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2006, 12:31:58 AM »
And...the ricochet off the shack is one of the coolest, boldest, shots there is.
BTW: Tom Watson ricocheted one off the wall at the Road Hole. Does that course have a designer?


And I thought this was Superintendent housing ...

"... and I liked the guy ..."

John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2006, 02:49:13 AM »
Peter,

Thanks for the invite - I’ll have to get a visa first though - maybe they won’t let me in after my last criticism.

The ricochet off the shack could work - but if the ball accidently passes through the window is there enough room inside the shack to get at least a half swing to play it out again.

I still think the deliberate design of the bunker rising above the green surface a “yuck” and then no attempt to match the green contours to the bunker edge another “yuck”. It was probably an “add on” anyway and no fault of Floyd MacFarland - in the meantime it appears some of you love it.

Cheers John

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trees in the middle of the fairways
« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2006, 11:05:15 AM »
The first time I ever broke 80 and my second hole-in-one both happened on the same day, while I was playing in a high school match in Middleton, Wisconsin at a course called Pleasant View. Not a particularly memorable course at all (though I'll never forget it).

This course had not one, but two holes with large trees right in the middle of the fairway, in the driving zone no less. One was a dogleg par 4 and the second was a dogleg par 5. They were completely featureless holes otherwise and needed the gimmick.

The course barely had any trees on it at all; in fact I reckon the two fairway bound trees were probably among the biggest on the property, hence the reluctance to cut them down perhaps.

Also notable is a course in Janesville, WI, which is the public course I grew up playing - the 12th hole was a 108 yard par-three with a large oak tree blocking half the green....if the pin was on a certain side you had to wedge over it. I made my first par on this hole when I was 9 years old.

Golfing milestones in my life tend to involve places that have trees blocking the line of play.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2006, 11:09:09 AM by Matt Rose »
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

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