[Evan_Green]

Suppose one was trying to compare the yardage of a par 70 course to a par 72...how many yards should one "add" to a par of 70 to equally compare to a course with a par 72?

My guess is one would add approx 150-200 yards per shot below 72 (figuring about 200 yards to turn a par 3 into a par 4 or about 150 yards to turn a par 4 into a par 5). In other words my guess would be that a par 70 at 6600 yards would be comperable lengthwise to a par 72 of 6900-7000 yards...

Anyone have different thoughts on this?

[Tom_Doak]

I've always figured a stroke on par was worth about 150-175 yards.  If you go by the USGA slope system I think it's 180.

In reality, though, it's somewhat different.  When doing a routing plan you are usually trying to decide whether to keep a longish hole as a long par 4 for a par 71, or to stretch it into a par 5 to get the par up to 72 so the client will quit asking.  In most cases it is only feasible to add 50-75 yards to the hole (it's either going to be 460 or 510 yards), and you know that adding a stroke to par will make the golf course easier in relation to par.

[Dean Paolucci]

Evan - Interesting question!  I will follow the conversations with interest.  Without hijacking this thread, my home course is a 6050 yard par 71.  Slope for men is 129 middle and 135 back.  It contains 5 par 3's, 4 par 5's and 9 par 4's.  We have always speculated about the comparable length.  I would love to hear from the pundits about this topic as well.

[Scott Szabo]

I would agree with Tom, as many newer courses have such long par fours that could easily be converted to a par five without adding much length.  

If you're talking about replacing a par three with a par four, it's obviously a different story then.

[John_Conley]

I've always figured it to be at least 200.  If you turn a par 5 into a par 4, the comparable difficulty is there is the numbers are something like 525 and 325.

That is, a hole of more than 350 will be harder to a good player than a par five of 525.  

Lessening par makes it very difficult.

Which is easier to par, a par 4 of 375 or a par 3 of 200?  See, to me it has to be a change of 200 yards - no less - to accurately reflect the challenge.

6,600 yards par 70 is every bit the test of 7,000 par 72.  Take a course at 6,900 par 71 and it is harder still.

Obviously this is a generalization.  Rule of thumb.

[Gary Slatter]

we have a par 72 6824 yard Dick Wilson course (Lucayan).  To make it a "championship" course the PGA turned two par fives into par 4s. The total yardage difference was 20 yards.
par 70 6804 yards, par 72 6824 yards    

I think the USGA rating and slope are the same regardless of "par". 73.8 and 137

the 8th hole is a dog leg left par five 489, moving the tees forward 20 yards it becomes an excellent 469 par 4. Normally its a good par 5, well protected sloping green.

the 12th hole is a slight dog leg left par five 469/489. By playing at 469 its a good par 4.  It's an easy par five normally, a bunker "protects" the middle of the green.

[Kalen Braley]

Speaking of the topic, Arnie announced an update to Bay hill today on this very thing:

"Arnold Palmer's golf course isn't getting harder, but it might look that way on the scorecard.

Bay Hill Club and Lodge will play to a par 70 for the first time next month in the Arnold Palmer Invitational by converting two holes to par 4s. The 558-yard fourth hole will measure about 480 yards, while the 517-yard 16th hole will play close to 500 yards.

"It's something I've been thinking about for a few years now, and I figured it was time, simply for the way the game is progressing along," Palmer said. "Most of the guys are hitting irons into 16. It's playing as a par 4, anyway. So I thought we should take a look at this. I think this will make it more interesting for the overall tournament in relation to par."

It certainly will change the dynamics of the closing holes, a time for players to protect the lead with pars instead of trying to make up ground with birdies. The 17th is possibly the toughest par 3 at Bay Hill, and the 18th is a daunting par 4 with a pond protecting the front and right side of the green"

[Jay Flemma]

I go a little more than Tom D does, I add about 400 at least.  Maybe even 420.

[Jim Nugent]

we have a par 72 6824 yard Dick Wilson course (Lucayan).  To make it a "championship" course the PGA turned two par fives into par 4s. The total yardage difference was 20 yards.
par 70 6804 yards, par 72 6824 yards    

I think the USGA rating and slope are the same regardless of "par". 73.8 and 137

the 8th hole is a dog leg left par five 489, moving the tees forward 20 yards it becomes an excellent 469 par 4. Normally its a good par 5, well protected sloping green.

the 12th hole is a slight dog leg left par five 469/489. By playing at 469 its a good par 4.  It's an easy par five normally, a bunker "protects" the middle of the green.

Gary, do the holes play easier now?  Not against par, but in average number of strokes.  

[Guy Phelan]

The norm might be that 150-200 yards per shot, but what if I had some unique land that made for two short, reachable par 5s, This could quickly alter that yardage down to 50 yards or so per shot

[Tommy Williamsen]

It all depends on the course.  Royal North Devon may have one of the most unusual par fives in the world.   #13 is only 442 yards long.  It is one of the shortest par fives I have played.  It follows a 423 yard par four.  Every time I step up to the tee, I am thinking birdie.  Getting there in two is no problem.  Getting on the green in two is.  The green is diabolical with its humps, bumps and turns.  Even chipping requires a deft touch.  Five is a good score.  Yet, on some score cards it is listed as a par four.  Same course same distance, one par 72 and one par 73.

[Gary Slatter]

we have a par 72 6824 yard Dick Wilson course (Lucayan).  To make it a "championship" course the PGA turned two par fives into par 4s. The total yardage difference was 20 yards.
par 70 6804 yards, par 72 6824 yards    

I think the USGA rating and slope are the same regardless of "par". 73.8 and 137

the 8th hole is a dog leg left par five 489, moving the tees forward 20 yards it becomes an excellent 469 par 4. Normally its a good par 5, well protected sloping green.

the 12th hole is a slight dog leg left par five 469/489. By playing at 469 its a good par 4.  It's an easy par five normally, a bunker "protects" the middle of the green.

Gary, do the holes play easier now?  Not against par, but in average number of strokes.  

Not really, except when you tell any golfer that this is "an easy five" they'll score better than if you say "this is a tough four".  The 8th scores higher because the tee shot is difficult, the hole bends almost 90 degrees at 260 yards, and the green is very well bunkered and difficult to putt.  It's a "par five" regardless of the tee used.

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