Encore at Pradera

[Matt_Ward]

During my extended visit to the mountain time zone area I had the opportunity to return to Pradera -- Jim Engh's design -- in the town of Parker.

I had played the course last year and wanted to see if my initial impressions on how good the course is were indeed merited.

Pradera clearly embraces all the aspects of the Engh design style.

Playing just under 7,200 yards, Pradera was in first rate condition as they were ready to stage their '06 club championship.

One of the things that remains in my head is how often Engh will overdose on the shaping of certain greensites. When this happens you will see a bowl-like shape in which approach shots are not really differentiated -- as I believe they should be -- but more of a leveling off in terms of their final outcomes.

The uphill short par-4 6th is one example of this type.

On the flip side Pradera also provided a reinforcement of certain key holes that are simply among the best you can play in all of Colorado. The 4th at 456 yards climbs uphill and is simply a beast when the wind blows in your face. Even when played without wind or downwind the approach shot and what it entails is clearly first rate stuff.

The other hole that cemented its position with me was the swinging dog-leg left downhill par-4 11th -- 490 yards of sheer joy -- provided you execute that is ! The hole starts from an elevated tee but the drive is where you need to demonstrate one's skill. The hole bends left around a pond and the green is divided into two different halves with the back left portion the primo pin position.

Pradera is still one of my favorite Engh courses because you are constantly facing edgy / fun challenges. Boring is not a word one can apply to an Engh design.

Give you another example of a great green design that I would like to see Engh repeat more often. The par-3 13th is 230 yards and not one bunker exists there. The green is located on a crown and you need to be most precise with your approach. In many ways it gives the appearance of a green at Pinehurst #2 as it falls of on all sides. Best of all, the greensite at #13 is different than the one that comes before it (#12) and the one that follows (#14).

At Pradera the role of carts is a must and for the purist of purists here on GCA that might make a visit unacceptable. That would be unfortunate because the layout is like one's favorite rollarcoaster ride at the theme park. Just as you hit botton you face another unique hill that causes you to hold on to catch your breath.

Pradera is not bulletproof design wise IMHO, but the issues are more of a secondary item than a main concern.

One other word -- the par-5's at Pradera are always a solid addition. The 1st is a solid opening hole -- the downhill 7th is even better than I first thought and the three on the back -- the uphill 12th, downhill 16th (although there needs to be another center-placed bunker at the 340-350 location) and the dynamic finishing 18th which I believe is even better than the closing hole at Pradera.

All in all, Pradera represents for me the very best of what Engh has designed to date. What will be interesting to see is if the architect himself can continue with what he does best and avoid the unncessary repetitions on bowled greensites that far too often fail to maximize the very shot values they should call for when playing them.

[Jay Flemma]

Matt - I just got doen playing it w/Eddie Peck and Adam Clayman.  We have Fossil Trace tommorrow.  I STILL love this course and it is- IMNSHO-his best work to date. Like a young Led Zepplin in 72 He's only getting stronger...

[Matt_Ward]

Jay:

That is some group you are playing with.

I too love Pradera but there are a few issues in regards to the mounding that I hope are tempered with future Engh designs. I'm not suggesting throwing the baby out with the bath oil -- but shot differentiation as demonstarted by the 13th green needs to be done more often.

P.S. I'd also keep the squiggly bunkers -- they are quite effective and penal in the same breath.

P.S. Plus -- Enjoy Fossial Trace -- well done, especially the back nine minus the dud par-3 5th which is simple a lame hole.

[Matt_Ward]

Mea culpa on my part --

I meant to say the 18th at Pradera being even better strategically than the 18th at Lakota Canyon Ranch -- although both are stellar IMHO.

[Jay Flemma]

Jim, his son Brian and his architecture team beat me, Eddie Peck Adam Clayman and more music buddies by one in a team match, but we got shafted regarding handicap shots.  No matter...the golf hammer of justice was only minorly detained...

[Matt_Ward]

Jay:

What did you think of the stone placements on the first par-5 on the back nine at Fossil Trace. I see it as quite good from the standpoint in using a pre-existing condition to architectural usage.

[Doug Wright]

I will imbed below into Matt's original post some photos of the holes he highlights since Matt is photographically challenged...

IMO Pradera is the best of the five Jim Engh courses I've played (others being Red Hawk Ridge, The Sanctuary, Fossil Trace and Lakota Canyon). Pradera has more consistently better holes and better greensites. I like the fact that several of the holes (eg #2, #10, #13, #14) are bunkerless and rely on other features (eg the par 4 second hole is similar to the 9th at Ballyneal with two mounds on each side of the fairway 2/3 of the way to the green obscuring the golfer's view unless you are in the proper position off the tee). I think the uphill holes at Pradera are better than the uphill holes at the other Engh courses I've played. The par 4 4th that Matt mentions is a strong hole, and I liked the shorter par 4 5th with a centering bunker that governs the tee shot.

I agree with Matt that the par 4 #11 (pictured in the next post below) and the par 5 #18 are very strong holes. In particular, I think #18 is much better than the par 5 #18 at Lakota Canyon. The long centering bunker is very threatening and requires a decision for the strong player while allowing the average player a longer but safer route to the right. The strong player has many choices/challenges here both on the tee ball and second shot. Here is a photo of #18:



I'm not a fan of the greenside "bowls" that Jim has used on the courses I've seen, but they are less prevalent here and the course benefits from it. Also, the cartball/unwalkable nature of Pradera (and Lakota Canyon and Sanctuary) is defintely not my preference. But it sure allows for the Wow factor   of the tee shot on the par 5 7th (pictured in the following post) or a 400+ yard drive from the par 5 16th tee pictured here:

[Doug Wright]

I've added some photos below to Matt's initial post on Pradera

During my extended visit to the mountain time zone area I had the opportunity to return to Pradera -- Jim Engh's design -- in the town of Parker.

I had played the course last year and wanted to see if my initial impressions on how good the course is were indeed merited.

Pradera clearly embraces all the aspects of the Engh design style.

Playing just under 7,200 yards, Pradera was in first rate condition as they were ready to stage their '06 club championship.

One of the things that remains in my head is how often Engh will overdose on the shaping of certain greensites. When this happens you will see a bowl-like shape in which approach shots are not really differentiated -- as I believe they should be -- but more of a leveling off in terms of their final outcomes.

The uphill short par-4 6th is one example of this type.



On the flip side Pradera also provided a reinforcement of certain key holes that are simply among the best you can play in all of Colorado. The 4th at 456 yards climbs uphill and is simply a beast when the wind blows in your face. Even when played without wind or downwind the approach shot and what it entails is clearly first rate stuff.

The other hole that cemented its position with me was the swinging dog-leg left downhill par-4 11th -- 490 yards of sheer joy -- provided you execute that is ! The hole starts from an elevated tee but the drive is where you need to demonstrate one's skill. The hole bends left around a pond and the green is divided into two different halves with the back left portion the primo pin position.



Pradera is still one of my favorite Engh courses because you are constantly facing edgy / fun challenges. Boring is not a word one can apply to an Engh design.

Give you another example of a great green design that I would like to see Engh repeat more often. The par-3 13th is 230 yards and not one bunker exists there. The green is located on a crown and you need to be most precise with your approach. In many ways it gives the appearance of a green at Pinehurst #2 as it falls of on all sides. Best of all, the greensite at #13 is different than the one that comes before it (#12) and the one that follows (#14).

At Pradera the role of carts is a must and for the purist of purists here on GCA that might make a visit unacceptable. That would be unfortunate because the layout is like one's favorite rollarcoaster ride at the theme park. Just as you hit botton you face another unique hill that causes you to hold on to catch your breath.

Pradera is not bulletproof design wise IMHO, but the issues are more of a secondary item than a main concern.

One other word -- the par-5's at Pradera are always a solid addition. The 1st is a solid opening hole -- the downhill 7th is even better than I first thought and the three on the back -- the uphill 12th, downhill 16th (although there needs to be another center-placed bunker at the 340-350 location) and the dynamic finishing 18th which I believe is even better than the closing hole at Pradera.

[Inserted DW text:This is the par 5 7th, a split fairway with the straightaway option (over the fronting spectacles bunkers) requiring a longer carry to a narrower fairway but affording visibility and a shorter second as a reward]:



All in all, Pradera represents for me the very best of what Engh has designed to date. What will be interesting to see is if the architect himself can continue with what he does best and avoid the unncessary repetitions on bowled greensites that far too often fail to maximize the very shot values they should call for when playing them.

[astavrides]

IMO Pradera is the best of the five Jim Engh courses I've played (others being Red Hawk Ridge, The Sanctuary, Fossil Trace and Lakota Canyon).

I'm not a fan of the greenside "bowls" that Jim has used on the courses I've seen, but they are less prevalent here and the course benefits from it. Also, the cartball/unwalkable nature of Pradera (and Lakota Canyon and Sanctuary) is defintely not my preference. But it sure allows for the Wow factor   of the tee shot on the par 5 7th (pictured in the following post) or a 400+ yard drive from the par 5 16th tee pictured here:

I havent played Pradera or Sanctuary, but, to me, Redlands Mesa is the least stereotypically Engh of his courses that ive played, and also the best.  Not many, if any, greenside bowls and squiggly bunkers, neither of which I'm a fan of.  Interesting though, that it was in the top 20 of US public courses in Golf Digest (Lakota Canyon was too recent to be rated) and not in the top 100 of Golf Mag.  There must be some disagreement about it's merits....

[Jay Flemma]

I walked Pradera both times no problem.  The back is so strong.  My favorite hole is one thats somewhat unsung - 10!  Engh says more in those 311 yards than other say om 450.  I'll try to rustle up a picture..

[Matt_Ward]

Stavros:

You need to play Pradera because it is a good bit beyond the likes of Redlands Mesa and I like the Grand Junction layout too.

The simple fact is that Engh's design philosophy as clearly evolved from Redlands Mesa to what you see at Pradera. There are some issues I have with the overworking of the mounds (see hole #6 as prime candidate #1) but then you also have some stellar gems with the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th and 9th holes, to name just those on the front.

On the subject of Lakota -- it's good to see that Golf Magazine included it among their top 100 people can play. Now, if they can get their act together and include Black Mesa near the front of the list all will be well with the world.