#8 Maidstone

[Jim Franklin]

I was curious to hear what others thought of the short par 3 #8 at Maidstone. I made my virgin round there the other day and thought this hole was very cool. My host then informed me that Jack Nicklaus loved the course and would only make one change... remove that mound in front of #8. I couldn't think of a worse thing to do. Any thoughts?

[TEPaul]

Jim:

I agree with you and I just love that hole too. And that's pretty interesting as the next hole is perhaps one of the neatest and coolest looking par 4s in the entire world, in my opinion.

I'll tell you something pretty interesting about #8 and what Nicklaus said about the removal of that dune blinding most of that grren that includes a huge amount of the Poetic Justice on Nature's part.

The story is, and Maidstone's wonderful history book confirms it, that there was an influential Maidstone member that hated that dune blinding most of that green and he had the entire dune removed so one could see the whole green.

But when they all returned the next year Nature had redeposited and reformed that dune just the way it had been blinding a part of that hole as it had been. Obviously after that they got Nature's message and just left it as we know it---eg a naturally extremely unique hole.

[TEPaul]

Jim:

I'll tell you a pretty funny story that happened once on the next tee--eg #9 tee (and denotes a lot of the funny and unique world of the Hamptons).

Mr Makrianes, an old line member of Maidstone, and a man of some pretty strong opinions on certain things was waiting to tee off on #9 and while he waited he looked down on the beach below and to his horror down there on the beach below him were a couple of gay guys going at it.

So he starts screaming at them to cut that shit out and then he starts grabbing clubs and hurling them down there at them as they jump up and start running naked and screaming back at him; "Hey asshole, we have rights too you know?" as Mr Makrianes screams back at them; "Not on my Goddamned Maidstone beach you don't!"

[Jim Franklin]

That is funny. And my host tells me he was playing in the club championship a few years back and the young guy he was playing hit a ball down on the beach and when he found it he looked up and saw a couple going at it. He was a teenager and his younger brother was caddying for him and they were amazed at what they saw and played horribly after that . Ah, the Hamptons.

BTW, I thought #9 was an awesome hole as well.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I'll have you know that Tom Paul and I were out there, and we get right next to #7 green/#8 tee and Tom says to me, "Hey, that's Rees Jones out there, I think... Stay here!" which given my somewhat receptive demeanor I have had for his highness, I completely understood. Tom walked out there and I walked over to #8 tee and felt my jaw drop. What a great place in Golf, standing on that tee.

Well, it actually wasn't him, and that's probably the closest encounter I have ever had with his Reesness, thankfully for him. God forbid if it did happen, the world's axis would turn 9 degrees reandering the planet a cold dark orb and relegated to Pluto class of planets--a dwarf.

[Jim Franklin]

TN -

My host said that he sees Rees a lot out there and has had some very enjoyable discussiond with him. He said Rees told him that he loves Maidstone and wild grasses and links style golf, but his clients have him build the "other stuff".

I just hope they don't change that hole.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Jim,
I have no doubt Rees loves links golf. No doubt at all. But the part of what his clients want, Rees, much like his father--and frankly an impressive way of doing business architecturally--demands the lack client involvement in his designs. At least that's what I'm told.

I think Rees likes what he builds and has no intentions of ever changing that style, unless he feels like it, and I don't have a problem with that. It's just a style and formula I think could be so much better.

[TEPaul]

Tommy:

I'm just sorry that on the wonderful day we were at Maidstone his Reesness was not there to meet you. I truly feel that I could've smoothed over some seriously ruffled feathers and some hyper serious dander between the two of you.

One time I was getting ready to tee off on #1 and I looked to my right and there was Rees so we had a nice chat for a while about architecture and stuff. Rees did, however, proclaim that in his opinion, that SI article that gave all that publicity to GOLFCLUBATLAS.com was perhaps one of the darkest days in the annals of golf course architecture, and it was made even darker by the fact that 'That evil man from California' had his photograph on the front of that SI article.

Of course I told Rees that there was no question whatsoever in my mind that he was absolutely right on both counts.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I couldn't agree more! (And I do so in a Hamptons kind of way!)

[Brad Swanson]

Jim,
   I think 8-10 are a really cool stretch of holes at Maidstone.  Asthetically speaking, #8 and #9 are the types of holes I see in my golfing dreams.  I love the semi-blind nature of #8 and hope to get a chance someday to test it again now I know just how much green is actually blind to the teeshot.  The only downside is that I played Maidstone too late in the fall to enjoy the "view" of the beach, if you catch my drift.  

Cheers,
Brad  

[Jim Franklin]

I do know what you mean. I hope to get back there again too as we played 17 and 18 in near darkness. 8-10 are a great stretch of holes.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom,
I don't take any of it personally. In fact, I find it sort of funny because I do think we have something in common. (a devout passion for the Sport)

As far as Bobby and him getting together with you as mediator, well, I think if you do, then we need to get it on YouTubeİ as a new episode for Celebrity Death Match.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I was curious to hear what others thought of the short par 3 #8 at Maidstone. I made my virgin round there the other day and thought this hole was very cool. My host then informed me that Jack Nicklaus loved the course and would only make one change... remove that mound in front of #8.

I couldn't think of a worse thing to do. Any thoughts?


Agreed

The extra long flagstick signals the golfer as to the location of the hole.

Removing that mound would be a terrible mistake and indicative of the failing of some modern day architects that insist on total visibility.

Removing the mound would make the hole just another par 3.
The mound is unique and intimidating.
It's a wonderful feature.

Isn't Rees Jones the consulting architect for Maidstone ?
Hasn't the golf course remained basically intact during his consultancy ?

Isn't Rees Jones the consulting architect for NGLA ?
Hasn't NGLA remained basically intact during his consultancy ?
Hasn't NGLA restored lost features during his consultancy ?[/color]

[Jim Franklin]

Patrick -

I do not know if Rees is the consulting architect, but it wouldn't surprise me. I do know that my host had nothing but good things to say about Rees and I agree. I met him last year and he was a nice, friendly guy.

Anyway, I thought the 8th was one of the best par 3s I have played. I loved the mound.

Jim

[T_MacWood]

I was told by my host that Rees was re-doing some bunkers at #10 (this was a couple of years ago), which was confirmed by Ken Bakst. An unfortunate development IMO.

I'm a big fan of Rees the inactive consultant.

The short 15th is a beauty as well.

[TEPaul]

"Tom,
I don't take any of it personally. In fact, I find it sort of funny because I do think we have something in common. (a devout passion for the Sport)

As far as Bobby and him getting together with you as mediator, well, I think if you do, then we need to get it on YouTubeİ as a new episode for Celebrity Death Match.  

TommyN:

If you ever want to get along wth Rees I think you should be perfectly honest with him and tell him that you do have some issues with his architecture and that you do think his brother Bobby (RTJ jr) is probably is the greatest golf course architect that ever lived. Or at least be honest enough with him to tell him that you think some of the Hawaiian shirts and kimonos that Bobby wears are a lot cooler than anything Rees ever wears.

[TEPaul]

Tom MacWood:

Rees probably is the consulting architect at Maidstone on their bunkers if they need him.

A few years ago the green chairman out there who's a good friend called me to ask me about some of the restoraton architects. I recall we at least talked about some of the usual suspects---ie Forse, Hanse and Prichard, and I recall in a later conversation with him that they were talking to Gil.

But then in another call he said the president said the club should probably ask Rees out of consideration if he minded that even if we all believed that when Rees joined there was apparently some understanding with him saying he wouldn't work as their architect if he belonged to the place.

But not long after that apparently Rees told the club that he would do it.

Maybe his price was right?  

[Jason Mandel]

Jim,

This weekend I read most of Dewsweepers, a great book on golf and golf friendships written by James Dodson.  In the book he tells a story of going to visit his good friend Rees Jones and how instead of going to play Atlantic because it was too crowded, Rees took him to play Maidstone.

He talks about the short 8th hole and describes it as a hole most Americans would hate because of its blindness but one that both him and Jones loved.  I think he even asked Jones if he would change anything to the hole, or the course for that matter and Jones remarked something like he loved the course exactly as it was.

The hole really does sound exciting though.

Jason

[Jim Franklin]

Jason -

It is a very cool hole. The only thing they are changing on the course, that I saw, is the elimination of some the tall reeds that have grown all over the place. (I forget the name of the plant, but it is not indigenous to the area) By removing these plants, you will be able to see a lot more of the course and it should look terrific when completed. It took some time to get this approved as the tree huggers thought something terrible was going on until they realized that this plant was not indigenous to the Hamptons, but brought in from somewhere else.

Jim