Canyon River Open For Play

[Craig Sweet]

Canyon River finally opened for play yesterday and it was worth the wait. By most standards this is a pretty darn nice golf course, and by Montana standards this one is outstanding. This is a Brian Curley /Lee Schmidt design....


The highlights...

#2...a brutal 485 yard par 4...a slight dogleg right...I consider this a "cape hole"...a large waste area runs the entire length along the left side...a large fairway bunker about 285 yards out on the right narrows the fairway down...by the way...the fairway bunkers are IN the fairways and not the rough!

#5...450 yard par 4...a long bunker (50 yards long) down the right side...I carried it easily from the tips...so maybe its out there 230 yards...large bunkers on the left about 250 yards off the tee...ample room left...no room right..OB right of right side fairway bunker...the green is long and narrow...with a bunker on the right..

#6...519 par 5...a semi cape hole..water for 3/4 of the hole along the left side..lots of bunkering about 120 yards from the green and right up to the green..amazing contours on and around the green...not an easy target for the second shot...a second shot up the right side seems leave the best angle into the green, but I need to play this hole more to figure it out..

#11...uphill par 5 533 yards...blind tee shot...fairway slopes from right to left pretty much from the tee to the green...large fairway bunker about 240 yards on left and several large bunkers about 140 from the green...the green slopes hard from right to left...

#12...211 yard par 3...downhill...a nice drop shot par 3...front of the green protected by two huge bunkers and a large rock ledge out croping...a 20 ft tall juniper tree also guards the front of the green..bunkers to the left...the green is sort of like a raised punch bowl...

#15...534 yard par 5...a large (200 ft tall)ponderosa pine smack in the middle of the fairway about 260 yards out...large p pines on right and left sides about 200 yards off the tee...these trees are huge and from the back tee you would swear they are the same distance from the tee...three giant tees blocking the fairway...its only after you hit that you realize the biggest tree in the center of the fairway is 50 yards past the others and actually much farther away than it appears....the second shot is over several large cross bunkers that are 100 yards from the green...the right side is the best angle into the green, but it is the slightly longer route and a shot hit too far can carry into a green side bunker...very interesting...the green is large with much contour.

#17...339 yard par 4....this par 4 is so well thought out for a short hole...the first fairway bunkers are about 270 yards off the tee....if you clear them, you might catch a bounce and make a large bunker that starts about 30 yards from the green and runs up and along the right side of the green...to the right is a small area of fairway and mowed rough that gives you a pretty good angle into the green if you want to avoid the bunkers completely.

The fairways are blue grass...cut at .75ish...greens bent...probably one of the "A's"...running I would say 9-9.5....

The bunkering is amazing...huge..ragged....deep. Unlike most courses in Montana, some actual thought went into the design of this course...the course can play very tough. The contours in the greens are wild and would be outragous if they get them running much over 10....

The cost...$34 weekends...$29 weekdays...carts are $12 a seat.

[Matt_Ward]

Craig:

Forgive me for likely asking the same question twice -- where is Canyon River located. I will be in the Montana area sometime next week and may be interested in playing the course if time and proximity are workable.

Thanks ...

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Take a tour of this course in Missoula, MT:

www.canyonrivergolfcommunity.com/rec_golf.html

[APBernstein]

From the website:

Western Montana is well known for exceptional golf.

Really?

[Garland Bayley]

From the website:

Western Montana is well known for exceptional golf.

Really?

You have to remember, Western Montana is bigger than perhaps 40 of the 50 states. My experience is playing the small town 9 hole courses as a youth. They certainly had the terrain for great golf, if not the architecture.

The Flathead Lake area of Montana has a reputation for some good golf. Since I have not played there, I cannot verify. It probably is easily better than Billings in the East.

[Matt_Ward]

Craig:

Looking for some guidance ... if you stack up Old Works versus Canyon River can you give me your thoughts on which is the better overall course ?

I'm somewhat nearby during my trip in Montana but I don't want to venture to play just another so-so or slightly above average course.

Are you saying Canyon River is the best course in all of Montana ?

Many thanks for your candid comments.

[Michael Robin]

Matt -

I was up there last week and I believe I passed Canyon River on I 90 heading east just outside of Missoula. It was an attractive course from the road with what looked like cabins lining one fairway. Kinda reminded me of the look of the accommodations at Barnbougle.

[Matt_Ward]

Michael:

C'mon partner -- you need to do a good bit more than simply insert the name of Barnbougle into the mixture.

You say it was an attractive course "from the road" -- frankly that tells me zero, nada, goose egg. I need a direct experience and then one that can supply some give and take on a course comparison / contrast with the likes of Old Works.

New Jersey is the size of a small county in all of Montana. I don't make a side venture to Missoula but like I said I need a good bit more info / reasons than the accomodations look good from the road.

[Garland Bayley]

The turn off for me was when I looked at the course tour on the website, I found that 8 holes have ponds as water hazards!

[Michael Robin]

Jeez, sorry Matt, but that was the only info that I could offer given that I had seen it just passing by in both directions, and didn't get the time to stop in and take a look. Why don't you take the other piece of info that is useful and factual regarding the location and strike the rest of it from your memory.

[Sean Leary]

Craig,

Are bluegrass fairways common there?  I had never played bluegrass fairways until I played at Stock Farm down the road.

[Craig Sweet]

Matt Ward...It's in East Missoula....right off I-90

PONDS???  There is ONE hole where a pond is a hazard...#6   On #7 and #10 there is a pond, but it is not much of a hazard, and should not come into play for even average golfers...on #4 from the far back tees....tee's that may rarely be used, a small pond fronts the tee box...a 50 yard carry at most.

HOW DOES IT COMPARE with Old Works....I'd say it's better. The bunkers at Canyon River are vastly superior, and more strategic than anything at Old Works...90% of Old Works bunkers are eye candy or holding areas for all that black slag...Canyon River challenges you off every tee to hit a good tee shot...Old Works is for the most part wide open and forgiving off the tee...the greens at Canyon River have way more contour...internally, than anything I rememebr at Old Works.....#5 and #18 are par 5's and as good or better than the par 5's at Old Works...#2 at Canyon River is a very good par 4 and I would put it right up there with # 14 (?) at Old Works....

[Matt_Ward]

Michael:

Appreciate your desire to help -- it's just that when I hear about a solid layout worth playing I always like to get as much as details as possible. Frankly, I could give a rats behind about the accomodations because I've been to many a course where the lodging is on par with what Joseph & Mary endured at the stables.

Craig:

That's fine but I still need you say something about whether the course belongs in the #1 position from all the courses you have played in the great State of Montana. I mentioned Old Works because it's the best I've played there.

Kudos to Schmidt & Curley -- the bunkering schemes they use are often well done -- ergo Shadow Ridge in Palm Desert, the Socal Courses in Calimesa and Southern Dunes in Maricopa, AZ, are three that come quickly to mind.

I may have to make a 275 mile detour but if the golf is thaaaaaat good then it may indeed be worthwhile.

Thanks for sharing ...

[Craig Sweet]

Matt, I assume you get paid to tell the world whether a course is #1 or #1000....I don't.

I did not find Old Works to be all that special. Yes, the location is different and somewhat fascinating, but the golf course is not that difficult. Oh, I suppose if you are crazy enough to play it from the 8000+ yard tees it's a challenge, but seriously, what is so great about wide open fairways that offer no challenge off the tee, nearly flat greens, and little or no fairway bunkering?

Canyon River on the other hand is not that long...6900 yards from the tips...but it does challenge you on nearly every tee...the 10th might be the only wide open fairway on the course where you can rear back and smack the ball with no worries about where it goes.

Canyon River is in great shape. The fairways are full and play firm...at .75" height of cut they do not run as much. The greens are firm...the day I played we had several hole locations that just plain made us laugh they were so difficult to get a second shot ball close to...and putting to them was fun.

As for your ratings...there's some good golf in Montana, and my guess is you don't go looking for it. The fact that a course like Eagle Bend is even remotely considered Top 3 in the state tells me someone isn't looking very hard for the better courses....but for my money...Canyon River and Phantom Hills...two courses here in Missoula, are better than Old Works.

[Matt_Ward]

Craig:

I enjoy playing quality golf courses -- where they rate is a secondary consideration for me although I do enjoy the banter in sorting such things out. The idea that something is "my ratings" is a bit simplistic on your part. I'm a golfer first and foremost and enjoy quality layouts -- Schmidt & Curley are fine designers and it's good to see there efforts are in a place like Missoula, MT.

I simply mentioned Old Works because I've played my fair share of dogs -- Eagle Bend clearly belongs in that category.

The Nicklaus course is better than you mention -- provided you play from the tips. If someone plays from the front markers the issues you raised would be more pronounced.

You mentioned two courses in Missoula as being better -- fair to say they are among the 3-4 best in the entire state ?

Thanks ...

[Craig Sweet]

Matt. I have not played The Stock Farm, nor have I played up at Iron Horse, so I do not know how they compare. Nor have I played Meadow Lake, and Big Mountain...in the Flathead...from what I have seen of those courses, they do not compare, but until I play them I won't comment.

But yes, compared to Old Works, I would have to rate Phantom Hills and Canyon River better golf experiences.

I doubt more than 1% every play Old Works from the 8000+ yard tees...from the next two tee markers up, it isn't much of a course.

[Matt_Ward]

Craig:

I agree / re: Old Works. But too many times when people back bite on a course being easy from the middle or front markers it's because the architect intended no less than that to happen.

When played from the tips the real teeth can sometimes come forward and Old Works does have a few of these holes.

I'm not here to canonize Old Works but given Jack's propensity to design high-end expensive places to play -- the finished work in Anaconda has done a fine service to the folks in and around the neighborhood there.

In regards to the greater Montana golf story - the best chapters have still yet to be written. Clearly, there is much interest in the tri-state area of MT, WY and ID as they all border Yellowstone and the resulting influx of people has meant a growth in different types of golf available there.

I will be in the area the end of this week and early next to sample a few of the newer layouts in that area. If time and opportunity arises I may be able to swing by Canyon River and have a look see for myself.

Thanks for posting the info and your frank comments.

[Craig Sweet]

Matt...it was good for Anaconda to have that course built...I'm surprised it hasn't had more of an economic impact....if you do make it to Missoula I'd be happy to play Canyon River with you and give you a tour of Phantom as well...

Having just looked at Golfweeks top courses for Montana, I can say in my opinion, both Canyon River and Phantom should be on that list...at the top.

[Garland Bayley]

Matt Ward...It's in East Missoula....right off I-90

PONDS???  There is ONE hole where a pond is a hazard...#6   On #7 and #10 there is a pond, but it is not much of a hazard, and should not come into play for even average golfers...on #4 from the far back tees....tee's that may rarely be used, a small pond fronts the tee box...a 50 yard carry at most.

HOW DOES IT COMPARE with Old Works....I'd say it's better. The bunkers at Canyon River are vastly superior, and more strategic than anything at Old Works...90% of Old Works bunkers are eye candy or holding areas for all that black slag...Canyon River challenges you off every tee to hit a good tee shot...Old Works is for the most part wide open and forgiving off the tee...the greens at Canyon River have way more contour...internally, than anything I rememebr at Old Works.....#5 and #18 are par 5's and as good or better than the par 5's at Old Works...#2 at Canyon River is a very good par 4 and I would put it right up there with # 14 (?) at Old Works....

They are shown as ponds on the map on the website. The website mentions marshes, so it may have been simpler just to draw a blue area that looked like a pond.

Jack's philosophy was to be forgiving off the tee, as was the Mackenzie/Jones duo that did ANGC. There is a difference between challenging the driver off every tee and providing rewards for one placement over another. If I want to have the driver challenged off every tee, all I need do is play any one of many Pacific NW golf courses that Tom Doak has described as 18 holes of tree gates.

[Craig Sweet]

Garland, you need to get back out here to Montana.

[Matt_Ward]

Craig:

Thanks for the offer but my schedule will keep me in the Jackson, Big Sky and Victor areas of Wyoming, Montana and Idaho respectively.

If you happen to speak to the folks at the course and they wish to forward me collateral materials on the course you can send me a separate IM and I can provide my address.

Thanks ...

[Craig Sweet]

Matt...I was talking with my buddy today....he played 36 holes at Canyon yesterday.....he has a plus 1 handicap...hits it long, but not that long...I often hit it as long as he does and I'm old...ANYWAY....I asked him to rank Old Works, Phantom and Canyon....his take...OW #1...Canyon #2....Phanton #3.....he said the fairway bunkers at Canyon were a non issue...he felt he could bomb away and hit over them...he was never in any of them...shot a 75....the guy I played with was runner up in our club championship...he hits it far...very far...he thought the bunkers were very strategic and made him think on most holes off the tee..I asked him why he thought Old Works was better...he said the tee shots required more thought...hmmm...just the opposite of what I saw at OW...he mentioned the lenght as well...OW is 1000 yards longer than Canyon River....

[Garland Bayley]

I too have to question your rememberence of OW. Flat greens? Lack of fairway bunkers?

I do see you mention getting old.
 

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