Rules Question: What would you do.

[Dave_Miller]

Peter, you did this exactly right.  TEP beat me to the "I will not sign this scorecard" tact.  I have done that a few times.  It's not easy to do, but you pretty much have to do it if you think the committee blew it.    

Dave:
Decision 6-6(a)/4 states that the Marker does not have to sign for the hole if he disagrees with the committee decision but that he should sign and attest the holes he can attest to.
Best
Dave

[PThomas]

I know a competitor can call for a second rules official if he does not like the decision of the first official, I do not know if a fellow competitor can call for a second rules official.

Remember the Master's a few years back when Seve was attempting to get relief from a area where carts had been driven to the left of #10.  The Official on the scene (a Master member who was obviously awed by Seve) was about to grant relief when his fellow competitor--I believe Hubie Green--stated "We need a second opinion"-- When Seve saw the second opinion was coming down the hill and was the Secretary of the R&A, he announced "Never mind. I'll play it as it lies".

As a marker in stroke play if you do not agree with an official you should always ask that official to call for a second opinion, and despite what the official stated, raise the issue again when the card is returned.  This is a situation where the Committee can adjust the score at any time before the competition is closed (and perhaps afterwards if its found the player gave wrong information)-

Under 6-6a/5 a marker wrongly attesting a card and failing to include a known penalty results in DQ of the marker-- Although bringing the matter to the attention of an official should cover the player, the marker still has an obligation to the field.

I know a competitor can call for a second rules official if he does not like the decision of the first official, I do not know if a fellow competitor can call for a second rules official.

Remember the Master's a few years back when Seve was attempting to get relief from a area where carts had been driven to the left of #10.  The Official on the scene (a Master member who was obviously awed by Seve) was about to grant relief when his fellow competitor--I believe Hubie Green--stated "We need a second opinion"-- When Seve saw the second opinion was coming down the hill and was the Secretary of the R&A, he announced "Never mind. I'll play it as it lies".

As a marker in stroke play if you do not agree with an official you should always ask that official to call for a second opinion, and despite what the official stated, raise the issue again when the card is returned.  This is a situation where the Committee can adjust the score at any time before the competition is closed (and perhaps afterwards if its found the player gave wrong information)-

Under 6-6a/5 a marker wrongly attesting a card and failing to include a known penalty results in DQ of the marker-- Although bringing the matter to the attention of an official should cover the player, the marker still has an obligation to the field.

Dennis,

It was not Hubie Green, it was Ken Green and Seve even argued with Michael Bonnallack until the latter told him to get on with it. Ken Green took a lot of guff with his attitude but he basically told Seve to go pleasure himself.

Bob

don't recall hearing this one...what a dickhead

of course Seve has been linked with various other incidents, like coughing during backswing, etc....
I think Floyd told him to knock it off once...

I can't think of any other "great" player with such history

such crap certainly lowers my opinion of him

[JohnV]

Seve has had more than a few incidents with officials on the European Tour over the years also.

There is one famous one that is shown at Rules Workshops where he lost a ball and went back and dropped another one in a place that was obviously different (from a tree in his line to an open shot.)  For that one, the official ruled he made his best effort at going back to the same spot which was very generous.

I have always been surprised that the players on the European Tour don't give him as much grief as they gave Monty last year for his mis-placement after a rain delay.  I guess, at this point, they don't much care as he isn't a factor anymore.  It should be interesting if he comes over to play the Champions Tour.

[PThomas]

that's a good point John about how much grief Monty got...do you know if Seve got a lot of grief during his heyday?

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom H,

You said it, Pay more attention.

Unless you can prove that he dropped in a wrong place, you don't have much of a basis to make a claim.  If you saw him drop in a wrong place, you should have told him immediately rather than waiting and making a claim.

Your partner should have been watching also as he was his singles opponent.

JV - thanks - that's what I thought, and in the end why I didn't press any claim.  But.... all the circumstantial evidence said he dropped incorrectly.  Also, for a very difficult to explain, impossible to prove reason I just FELT like he dropped and hit very quickly, only when he saw me go down in the ditch and knew I couldn't see him!  So yeah, I know, nothing can be done there... but you can understand my discomfort and the bad taste this whole thing left, I'm sure.

Weird situation.

TH