Jasper Park

[Troy Alderson]

I just finished the feature interview of S. Thompson.  Does anyone have a picture of the 9th hole Cleopatra in its original form?  My imagination is too vivid and I keep picturing an actual reclining woman.  Want to see how it was done.

Also, just checked out the blog on playing the top 100 golf courses.  He did have some interesting things to say about Bandon and Pacific.  No worries Mr. Doak, Pacific Dunes is still me favorite of the three.

Pictures anyone?

Troy

[A_Clay_Man]

Troy, i seriously wonder if there would be any decent pictures of the hole. It's significantly downhill but in a gradual way. not like a drop shot hole at all. The difficulty in getting a decent picture is that it would probably have to come from up high on the distant mountains with a long lens.

[peter_p]

  A current picture is in the Ran's Jasper course review. I guess Cleo was in recline facing downhill, as two mounds were replaced by bunkers 50 yards up the hill. The bunker just short of the green was very strategic to the design.
  Maybe Tom Doak can see if a picture exists at Jasper later this year and share.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Troy,

I don't recall ever seeing a clear photo of the Cleopatra hole in its original form. Perhaps Ian Andrew knows if one exists?

Adam's right. If the hole ever existed as Thompson described it later in life (he's known to have embellished at times!), it was probably difficult to photograph.

[Ian Andrew]

The ninth from the first year



A great picture of the bunkering of Jasper, I would bet this is closer to 1929, after he came back and renovated his own work to bring it up to the level of Banff.

[Troy Alderson]

Thank you all for the assistance.  I guess I should have been born in the early 1900's.

Troy

[Stanley Thompson]

It was a shame that it that Harry had me make so many changes, it was one of the finest holes I had ever built. Harry thought that the back bunker was long flowing hair and the green was a face. He saw the two completely natural mounds as breasts and even suggested the carry bunker was well…... placed to give the impression of a reclining woman. I always found Harry to be a bit of a prude, and I can assure you none of that was intentional.

[A_Clay_Man]

Stanle, While you're about, could you tell us all the influence The good Doctor had on your eventual bunker shapes? Placement too, if any?

[Wayne_Kozun]

Stanle, While you're about, could you tell us all the influence The good Doctor had on your eventual bunker shapes? Placement too, if any?

And how about the influence of Tillie?  Rumour has it that while you were desigining Cedar Brae (nee Cedar Brook) in the mid 1920s you went across the street to view Tillie's redsign work at Scarboro.

[Stanley Thompson]

Adam,

Alister visited Jasper after I was long finished, and he wrote me to tell me he liked the work. I bet few of you realize that I met him on one occasion and that we talked about building a course together. Alister was too busy at the time.

Mr Kozun,

I was certainly able to have a look at the work at Scarboro. Albert's work was quite interesting to me. I built Cedar Brook the year before, but I was up consulting on the turf, when the work was done at Scarboro. I also made a few visits to Shoreacres near by when the work was done. I did go into Scarboro and fix some of Tillinghast's mistakes before the Open.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Mr. Thompson,

Wasn't it Dr. MacKenzie who worked with you a bit on the St. Andrews municipal course in Toronto (NLE)?

[Stanley Thompson]

Jeff,

MacKenzie was English, the architect was a Scot like myself.

[Jeff_Mingay]

A Scottish architect in Canada during the late 1920s, working in collaboration with you? Hmmmm...

Who could it have been?

[Wayne_Kozun]

I did go into Scarboro and fix some of Tillinghast's mistakes before the Open.

This would have been the 1940 Open or 1947 Open?  Or the Maple Leaf Open (I think that is what it was called) that was held during the war that was kind of the unoffical Canadian Open?

[Wayne_Kozun]

A Scottish architect in Canada during the late 1920s, working in collaboration with you? Hmmmm...

Who could it have been?

This wouldn't have been Willie Park Jr. before his untimely demise, would it?

[Ian Andrew]

Wayne,

When was the work done on the 14th? I assume that's the renovation Stanley was refering to.

Jeff,

Park died in 1922, so I don't think ity was him. I'm kind of curious to here this answer myself.

Stanley,

Who is the architect you were supposed to be working in collaboration with at St. Andrew's?

You built a course for Tillinghast, did you also do the construction work at Scarborough, or did others do the work?

[A_Clay_Man]

Stanley,
It was told to a gathering of this group (complete with photos) that you worked on Jasper park repeatedly. So when do you consider it's completion date?

[Alan Carter]

In response to this request for photos of the 9th at Jasper, I would love to help, but someone is going to need to give me some insight into how to post a photo.

Let me know and I will post a couple.

ac

[Eric Franzen]

In response to this request for photos of the 9th at Jasper, I would love to help, but someone is going to need to give me some insight into how to post a photo.

Let me know and I will post a couple.

ac

Register an account at www.flickr.com.
Follow their instructions for uploading pictures.

Click on the uploaded photo so that it is displayed on an individual web page.
Right click on the picture you wish to display and choose Properties.
Copy the address/URL including the extension .jpg.
Paste the adress on this board between the tags [ img ] [ /img ] - but with the spaces before an after img and /img removed.
Repeat the last two steps for each individual picture that you want to post here.

[Bob Jenkins]

Mr. Thompson,

While we have you, have you been consulted regarding changes at Capilano? Although there are many great and some spectacular holes up on the hill, the par 5s, other than 18, are extremely weak and short. Any word?

Bob Jenkins

[Alan Carter]

Everyone is correct, #9 is a very difficult hole to photograph.  The shadows make it difficult to get a clear representation of the actual hole.

The photo from further down the hill ends up giving people a better look at the entire hole.  The aerial photo allows you to understand the placement of all of the bunkers.  From the tee, visually the bunker short of the green looks to be directly in front, yet is really 15 or so yards short of the green.

The amazing part of the hole is that it is usually ends up playing more difficult for the better player than it does for an average one.  An average player usually hits the ball short and typically to the right.  On this hole that area is really no big deal and back in the days before irrigation it truly was the only way to play the hole.  There is a perfect little alleyway that funnels any shot hit into that area either onto or very close to the front of the green.  For a better player, who will hit a shot that carries the entire yardage, the the green dramatically slopes off right, left and long by 8 to 10 feet into areas that have bunkers everywhere.  

The hole is easy for an average player to make bogey, but is also very easy for a good player to make bogey or worse by getting cute and trying to save himself.  Any score of three on Cleopatra is a score that you are happy to walk to the 10th tee with.

An amazing golf hole!!

Jasper - Hole #9 from the Teeing Area

Jasper - Hole #9 from slightly further down the hill

Jasper - Hole #9 and #10 Aerial View - Hole #9 is at the bottom of the photo

[Adam_F_Collins]

Alister visited Jasper after I was long finished, and he wrote me to tell me he liked the work. I bet few of you realize that I met him on one occasion and that we talked about building a course together. Alister was too busy at the time.

My God. What a shame that collaboration never happened.