[Anthony_Nysse]

Last I knew, Cherokee Plantation
s membership was over $2 million with 6 figure dues. They currently have 17 members and Ernie is the newest. The course receives less than 900 rounds a year. Pretty special place-They wash your car while you play!

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[George Pazin]

I don't know much about the clubs Steve lists, but doesn't Pine Valley try to favor top notch amateur golfers? (Favor in a good way, btw.)

[Tim Pitner]

Mike and George,

I'm not suggesting that a club would really want to recruit poor players.  And, your example of Tom Huckaby helps me understand what you mean.  I've never played with Tom but I gather that he's a lower handicap player, but not necessarily a scratch (or vicinity) player.  I thought you were suggesting that it was necessary to have top-flight, competitive-type amateurs (e.g., more David Ober than Huckaby).  

I too like playing with good players, but I'll stretch that definition to include people who can get around the golf course, hit different types of shots and generally play well enough to appreciate various aspects of a good golf course.  Since I'm about a 8-9 handicap, I'm compelled to say that my definition extends to double digit handicaps.  Of course, it goes without saying that playing ability is only one factor I appreciate in golf partners.

[Steve Lapper]

Would Cypress Point, San Francisco GC, Shoreacres, The Valley Club, or a Myopia Hunt Club be, in any part, defined by their percentage of low-hcp'ers?

 

Steve,

Can you pick a few a little closer to home, where I have a chance to argue the point. I find it hard to believe that Sandy Tatum played alone at SFGC and Cypress ? His book certainly referenced some epic matches.

Myopia, as you know is on my very very short list to play, but is it a great golf club? Sounds like a terrific country club with a great historic course similar to Fishers and Maidstone.

I know nothing about The Valley Club or Shoreacres.

Myopia is a great golf club...along the lines of Somerset Hills (and you still haven't answered me about why you failed to elevate your game there! )

Sandy Tatum is the exception, rather than the rule at those places. Your inclusion of Fishers and Maidstone help make my point. Neither has a large contingent of low hcp'ers (I snaked a look at the hcp charts last year), yet they are undeniably great clubs.

George,

    Yes, PVGC does indeed favor better players, but that is a determination used mostly for prospective new members who reside away from the Philly/NJ/Del area. I know two new members who have hcp's in the mid-teens, but were connected to the club in other ways.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Your inclusion of Fishers and Maidstone help make my point. Neither has a large contingent of low hcp'ers (I snaked a look at the hcp charts last year), yet they are undeniably great clubs.

Steve,

Thank-you for confirming my point. They are "great clubs" but not necessarily "great golf clubs".

PS. The women players at Merion GC make it a great golf club probably more than the men do.

[Steve Lapper]

Your inclusion of Fishers and Maidstone help make my point. Neither has a large contingent of low hcp'ers (I snaked a look at the hcp charts last year), yet they are undeniably great clubs.

Steve,

Thank-you for confirming my point. They are "great clubs" but not necessarily "great golf clubs".

PS. The women players at Merion GC make it a great golf club probably more than the men do.

You are off-the-mark. They are great golf clubs. Are they Merion or PVGC, no but then again they have as many good players as a NGLA or Shinnecock. In fact, when I think of a place like Quaker Ridge (another undeniably great GOLF club), less than 5 players come to mind as having any amateur gravitas and only another 10 or so round out the field up to the 7-9hcp level. Out of 400 members, that's slim pickings, wouldn't you say?


BTW>>>>>>WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR GAME AT SOMERSET!!!

[Mike_Sweeney]

BTW>>>>>>WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR GAME AT SOMERSET!!!

Sometimes you have to take one on the chin in the name of "architectural appreciation".  

[Tim Gavrich]

I somewhat agree with the assertion that great golf clubs have a lot of very good players.  However, I do not think that all clubs with high numbers of low-hcp players are necessarily "great golf clubs."  Isn't there a relatively new club (I wanna say Phil Mickelson "designed" the course) which claims that 75% of it's members are 10 hcp or better?  I want to say Whisper Rock in Scottsdale, but I'm not sure.

I think that many good players is a good addition to have if you want some prestige as a club.  It gives modest publicity to the club, and legitimizes the golf course when an outsider sees how good the member is (that said, I've played with a couple members of prestigious clubs, and they haven't performed exceedingly well).

Here's an interesting question: Are there any "great golf clubs" whose courses might not be considered "great" on their own?  I've played a couple that have had a great feel, despite less-than-great golf courses.  The two that come to mind for me are Sharon CC in Sharon, CT and Lake Waramaug CC in New Preston, CT.  Both short, old, quirky 9-hole courses, but in really nice settings.  Modest and low-key, but very enjoyable.  Of course I won't hesitate to say that the best pure golf club I've ever seen is Newport CC.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Tim

You are right about Whisper Rock. Many touring pros who live in Scottsdale are paying members as well as many low handicappers. The club championship must be something. The fourth flight must be 6-8 handicappers.



Steve

[cary lichtenstein]

The quality of a club comes form the quality of the individual members character, not from their handicap.

[Paul Carey]

A question about Cherokee:  How can any course that has 900 rounds a year be a "Great Golf Club"?  It may be a great place but at that level of play it is really not a club as I want a club to be.  No member games,
cameraderie, etc.

Paul

p.s. If anyone wants to invite me to Cherokee for a day or a week I am ready to go!

[Marty Bonnar]

The most widely-flouted Rule in Golf?

Rules of Amateur Status
6-6. Membership

An amateur golfer of golf skill or reputation must not accept an offer of membership in a golf club or privileges at a golf course, without full payment for the class of membership or privilege, if such an offer is made as an inducement to play for that club or course.'

We know that one is strictly adhered to EVERYWHERE, right?

FBD.

[Mike_Sweeney]

My suggestion would be to establish a small category where better club players are able to join.

Mr. Baldy,

Come on, we here in The States have spent enough time with the lawyers to get around that one! For years the New York Athletic Club has had a "Sports" Membership Category where world class athletes in Olympic non-commercial sports such as judo, rowing and fencing receive free memberships and often grants for travel expenses in order to support these athletes in sports that Nike and others ignore.

I am not suggesting that Sebonack recruit world class amateurs to go wipe out Southampton Golf Club in an interclub match!

Most of these East Coast new vacation area second clubs are dead except for the months of July and August. In my opinion, before Sebonack can be deemed a "world class golf club" I would like to see them think out of the box and not just be another rich guy and friends mecca. It sounds like it has all of the ingrediants to do something special, so why not try? It is my understanding that Augusta and The Honors Club has always been generous to college golfers, perhaps a start there? Isn't at least a small part of the allure of The Old Course that you can join as a St Andrews student for next to nothing?

[Doug Siebert]

Last I knew, Cherokee Plantation
s membership was over $2 million with 6 figure dues. They currently have 17 members and Ernie is the newest. The course receives less than 900 rounds a year. Pretty special place-They wash your car while you play!

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

Jeez, for six figure dues they should not only wash it but replace it with this year's model every season as well!

[John Chilver-Stainer]

I like the idea the better the handicap of the members the better the Golf Club.
A few years back I was visiting a golf course in the South of England. On the competition members list were 43 players from 400 names with Handicap 0 – yes zero.
Passing by the Pro Shop I asked the Pro « that’s pretty unusual to have so many scratch players – how do they do it ? »
He said - « simple – they spend all day on the course – they’re all on the dole (taking unemployment benefit) »

The name of the course « Southhampton Municipal Golf Course »

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