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Jeremy_Glenn.

Quotes on par - this means you!
« on: November 07, 2002, 08:19:20 PM »
OK I'm on a roll now.

My essay on par is finished, or at least I thought it was, until I saw Dan King's quote in his post on "Changing Par".

So I had this idea.

Why don't I ask everyone at GCA to quote (briefly) how they feel about par.  What par means to you.  How worthy/worthless is it?  How do you define it?  How it affects you. etc... etc...

I'll pick what I feel are the best ones and include them (attributing the quote to you) at the end of my essay.  That's the idea anyway.  Whether or not it happens is up to the editor...

PS  This essay is supposed to be published, so this is for real.  Go nuts!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2002, 08:41:20 PM »
Par means something to me when the bet pays double for birdies, triple for eagles.

Joe
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2002, 09:14:21 PM »

I don't know the exact quote but Willie Nelson built a golf course on his property and mentioned that par is whatever he wants it to be, he has one hole that is a par 23 and yesterday he darn near birdied it.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2002, 09:21:52 PM »
I am hard pressed to come up with a better quote characterizing the concept of par than Willie Nelson's provided in Dan King's quote box-- or Dan's very own concept of par for that matter.

I am also reflecting on Robin Williams comedy routine about the Scot inventing the game of golf.  I would like to have Williams take a crack at the definition of par.

Ah'm ginta put masealf in the rrrole a tha Scotty an trrie ta geev'ya ahn ahnsir laddie...

Par be tha noomber o'strokes atta skeeled gawfer mayta taek against a particular lenth a' oal wearhas he be granted a fair noomber o putts upon tha grreene anna fair noomber a blows ta arrieve a tha green from tha tae.

Anna par fer tha curse err tha noomber a strroks a skeeled gawfer mayta taeken ahftear hehaas play'd the curse of gawd dahm frickin oles ahydeen feckin dimes! ::) :o 8) ;D

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Rich Goodale (Guest)

Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2002, 01:49:46 AM »
Par is in the mind of the beholder.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2002, 05:38:22 AM »
Par is the score I will make on any given hole if skill and good fortune collide hard enough.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

THuckaby2

Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2002, 07:33:08 AM »
A par by another other name would still feel as good.

Tommy Shakes

ps - I hate par in all its forms and forsake it and all its empty promises.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jeremy Glenn,

Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2002, 08:13:46 AM »
Guys,

You're trying too hard!

As eloquent as the above quotes are, I'm actually looking for simple feelings and impressions.  Tom's "I hate par in all its forms and forsake it and all its empty promises. " is actually the right kind of stuff.  

Just be yourself.

You can be passionately pro par or vehemently anti par.  Just tell me what you think.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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THuckaby2

Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2002, 08:16:49 AM »
Thanks, Jeremy.  But I must confess though that that line is a takeoff on a line from a Catholic baptism... do you reject Satan, his works and all his empty promises...

Me and orginality are strangers to each other.

That is how I feel about par though!

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2002, 09:10:16 AM »
If ya donna lieke me ansir, donna ask tha queasshun. :P

Par is what I can make on any given hole at any given time when I play that hole well.  But par for the course is shear perfection...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2002, 11:35:27 AM »
I thought my reply was deeply un-philosophical....

Joe
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2002, 12:55:08 PM »
In his book Bobby Jones discusses quite eloquently his battle with 'old man par'.  Par is only measurable internally.  If we all play the same 18 holes on the same day in a competition, par really is irrelevant.  In the days of 250 yard par 3's and 275 yard par 4's, par is irrelevant.  We use par as a measuring stick to see if we have improved.  It truly is an inner battle between 'old man par' and ourselves.  That's how I feel about it.  Great Thread.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

ed_battye

Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2002, 02:27:51 PM »
One man's par is another man's birdie.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2002, 02:56:49 PM »
;)

par is for those who can't accept golf
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

redanman

Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2002, 03:22:08 PM »
Par is a guide, not always accurate, but a reference.  Based upon a basic configuration of length, it is merely a guide.  for me it is best when the yardages overlap and the par also blurs.  A suggested score for a reasonably skilled golfer per hole.  I don't like the concept of "Total Par" for a course as it blurs back and forth.

Par 3 - up to 280 yards, depending on all factors

Par 4 - from 250 yards to maybe 520 yards, based upon all factors

Par 5 - from 460 to (6-something) based upon all factors

I would like to see holes listed on a card as a par 3-4 or a par 4-5  as well as the rigid 3, 4, and 5.

Total par-a guide, not always a Michelin or AAA guide, but a reference.   Don't care for it much.  Maybe if it too were par 70-72.

Although...... scores for the day are best referenced by total score (68 or 81, if you must)  rather than 3-under or 4-over.  But best - Joe beat Frank 3 up.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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A_Clay_Man

Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2002, 05:33:48 PM »
Par is like a fickle fence. When I'm on this side of it and I achieve it, it's disappointing. But when staring at the possibility of going over, and it's obtained, I'm elated.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2002, 05:46:01 PM »
Jeremy,

Par happens when play is equal to the demands of the hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2002, 07:19:42 PM »
Jeremy,

Par is what I attempt to better, am satisfied to achieve, and disappointed to exceed.

It is a standard, and a standard for comparison.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:11 PM by -1 »
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ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2002, 07:27:54 PM »
Par is the number of strokes it takes me to get in the hole if I haven't hit any bad shots. A birdie is any time I get up and down from off the green. An eagle is hitting the fairway and the green in "regulation" (no putts required!).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Mike_Cirba

Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2002, 07:36:58 PM »
It's a long lost tidbit that the word "par" comes from the Latin "parte", which is a derivative of the Greek "Parku", which of course is a simple variation on the Babylonian "Pa#f/", which has always had the same meaning in every one of those ancient tongues.  

Pure
Absolute
Rubbish

 ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2002, 08:14:20 PM »
At Gleneagles Kings there is a par 5, downhill, usually downwind and 475 yards, followed by a par 4, back up the hill aginast the wind at 470 yards (could be vice versa). To me the par for those two holes is 9, the pars are reversed in expectation.

Bottom line: par is a pretty artificial ruling, moving towards a partly antiquated remembrance as I pass ages regretably.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2002, 09:11:43 PM »


"I had 18 pars today, with minimal cheating" -Arthur Andersen
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

FORTSONATOR

Re: Quotes on par - this means you!
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2002, 12:41:53 PM »
Par as defined in The Random House College Dictionary...

par, n.  1. an equality in value or standing; a level of equality.  2. an average or normal amount, quality, condition, etc.  3. Finance a. the legally established value of the monetary unit of one country in terms of that of another using the same metal as a standard of value.  b. the state of the shares of any business, undertaking, loan, etc., when they may be purchased at the original price of their face value.  4. Golf the number of strokes set as a standard for a hole or a complete course.  5. average or normal.


I guess that's why they pay these guys to make definitions for words.  To me the Golf definition is the best way to describe how I feel about par.  Sorry for being so uncreative but I don't look at par as art, it's a number used to set a standard for a hole or course.  That's it, at least to me.

FORTSONATOR
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:11 PM by -1 »
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