R. Whitten says Tillie's the best

[PThomas]

just got done flipping thru the new GD at a bookstore and Whitten says the above in a 1-page artilce

thoughts?

[Glenn Spencer]

No argument for sure, but that is why they make chocolate and vanilla.

[Tom_Doak]

Probably just Ron's way of balancing the books after giving Burbeck the credit for the Black Course in the Open preview four years ago.

[Alex_Wyatt]

How would we define who is best? I would start defining it by looking at whose courses have retained their relevance and whose courses have the most variety. On that basis, I would give the nod to Harry Colt.

[PThomas]

How would we define who is best? I would start defining it by looking at whose courses have retained their relevance and whose courses have the most variety. On that basis, I would give the nod to Harry Colt.

Alex - I don't have my copy yet, but I think Ron mentioned few or no "clunker" (his word I think ) designs, along with courses that have held up better for today's players

when my copy gets delivered I shall update this

[Phil_the_Author]

Alex, you wrote, "How would we define who is best? I would start defining it by looking at whose courses have retained their relevance and whose courses have the most variety. On that basis, I would give the nod to Harry Colt."

On that basis how can it be anyone other than Tillinghast? If one puts aside ANGC and the Masters, can anyone name another architect whose designs are playing host to 10 NATIONAL Championships in this 1st decade of the 21st century?  

I'd say his courses are pretty relevant.

[Dave Bourgeois]

I read the article and when going through Tillie's best and his courses that had hosted a major there was no mention of Bethpage.  I thought that was strange and then I saw Ron's initials at the bottom of the page!

[Paul_Turner]

Alex, you wrote, "How would we define who is best? I would start defining it by looking at whose courses have retained their relevance and whose courses have the most variety. On that basis, I would give the nod to Harry Colt."

On that basis how can it be anyone other than Tillinghast? If one puts aside ANGC and the Masters, can anyone name another architect whose designs are playing host to 10 NATIONAL Championships in this 1st decade of the 21st century?  

I'd say his courses are pretty relevant.

Given that Colt built in many more nations than Tillie.  He may well beat him in this stat.  But I don't have the info.

[BCrosby]

If Tillie's courses were the most suitable to USGA and PGA setups over the last 10 years, I'm not sure that means they are the "best".

It's not clear to me what suitability to USGA setups means in terms of the architecture of the course. I don't think it is necessarily a good thing.

But I'm certain that's not the kind of thing that gives a designer an automatic pass to the front of the class.


Bob

[A_Clay_Man]

Haven't read the article, only have SFGC under my belt, but IMO, the best, is anyone who puts full throtle thought into their process. Not just features placed for features sake.

One issue I have, with what I've learned about Tillie on this site, is how he absolutely designed his holes with shot dictation, in mind. A nice drawing mid-iron here and full cleek, there. etc.

Having just played two Satrdays in a row, on two courses where shot demands were high, never dictated. I wonder if Tillie really was the best?  Or if that style of GC is truely the best? Maybe the best for the era that we thankfully just came out of? But hopefully the best is yet to come.... and opens in less than six weeks. CHOMP CHOMP BIT BIT

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Best what? Best Drinker?

Probably, but I'm sure him and Mac both would have been a kick to party with.

[PThomas]

Whitten writes: "  ..he never produced a careless effort.  Ross, Jones and Mackenzie all had their occassional clunkers.  Tillinghast never did"

he also writes that Tilly had no signature style, no trademarks, and that "Nobody gave more thought to more aspects of golf architecture"

also:"There is a diversity among his golf holes unsurpassed by others.  WHat's more, with only slight adjustments to their lengths, his designs have withstood modern technology and talent"

[Chris_Clouser]

What other courses besides Baltusrol, Winged Foot or Bethpage are holding championships?

I couldn't find a list on the USGA site.  If it isn't anything besides those three excellent courses I wonder if the selection has more to do with proximity to the USGA and PGA offices and to the largest metropolitan area in the country.  

Now those three are quite excellent from all the general consensus of those in the know.  

I think Tillie was one of the best, but as someone earlier said I think it is strictly someone's taste.  Someone will probably chime in with Ross soon as the best or even Tommy N. will chime in with Max Behr for some reason.  

But without question he is in the group that is right at the top of the ladder with those others.

[John Yerger]

Newport is holding the Womans Open.
It is a unique course in many respects, beside the fact it waters only tees and greens it is also Tillinghasts only seaside golf course to the best of my knowledge. I might add that Ron Forse did an excellent job with the restoration. I believe that Newport had the best collection of par threes of any course Tillinghast designed. Phil Y might have his own opinion on that.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Chris,
Behr would probably win an award for most handsome--a dashing, debonaire sort of guy. Hell, the guy got arrested for getting into a fight with one of his friends over the attentions of the famed silent film actress, Mary Miles Minter.

So as far as Behr being 'the Best,' well, I would say he was probably the most astute in terms of passion and the ability to really dissect the subject to the smallest detail. His greatest course--by far Lakeside, which is a very dim shadow of its former self today.

Now lets throw Perry Maxwell into the mix. Do you think he could drink as much tea as MacKenzie or Tillie could scotch?

I doubt it!

Those heathens!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Also, to add:

For me to pick a favorite would be like trying to choose which child you love the most. It just can't be done.

[A_Clay_Man]

I know next week, my favorite will be GCT.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I think you'll "get it" right away.

[Phil_the_Author]

Chris,

You asked, "What other courses besides Baltusrol, Winged Foot or Bethpage are holding championships?"

The 10 championships that have been and will be held on Tillinghast courses in this decade are:

1- 2000 U.S. Amateur, Baltusrol.
2- 2002 U.S. Open, Bethpage.
3- 2004 U.S. Amateur, Winged Foot.
4- 2005 PGA, Baltusrol.
5- 2006 U.S. Open, Winged Foot.
6- 2007 Champion's Tour - Tour Championship, 5 Farms.
7- 2008 Champion's Tour - Tour Championship, 5 Farms.
8- 2009 U.S. Open, Bethpage.
9- 2009 Champion's Tour - Tour Championship, 5 Farms.
10 - 2010 Champion's Tour - Tour Championship, 5 Farms.

[Mike Policano]

Phil, how about the 2001 Sr. PGA Championship at Ridgewood?

[Tyler Kearns]

Best what? Best Drinker?

Tommy,

I think old Stanley could drink him under the table.

TK

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike,

You're right... make that 11 Championships! Being wrong isn't neccesarily isn't a bad thing!  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tyler,
 This might be very true. Not only would Stan drink them both under the table, he'd have them so shnockered that he would probably steal both of the wallets and take the money and invest it in some more cattle--thinking he was going to make a million dollars! (1926-29 dollar$)