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Andy Troeger

Re:Wuskowhan and Point o' Woods clubs
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2006, 08:45:43 PM »

To each is own but I've found the folks who complain the most about Lost Dunes greens just aren't very good putters.

Ken


Ken,
By that logic most of the people that complain about the Point's narrow fairway corridors must not be very accurate drivers  ;D

Either way...I think we're down to personal preferences. The Point is not a course that presents a lot of "options" which I know is your preference along with short game interest. I think a course like the Point is wonderful repeat play because it tests all facets of the game and I never get tired of that. Its not your cup of tea, that's why we're lucky to have three great ones in SW Michigan.

Doug Sobieski

Re:Wuskowhan and Point o' Woods clubs
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2006, 09:05:46 PM »
Let me preface my comments by saying that I have always liked POW. It may have been the first "great" course I ever played, back in my late teens. Back in the day, I thought it was one of the best courses I'd ever seen. It will always hold a special place in my heart.

HOWEVER, today I have played just about everything of note in Michigan that is worthy of consideration for the Top (however many you want to list). I agree that it's a fair test as well as challenging. But to me, there are too many ordinary holes for it be in the uppermost echelon in the state. For example, #'s 1, 6, 10, 11, 12 (now that the tree is gone), and 13 are solid holes, but I'm not wishing that I could play them over and over again. Overall, there is not a lot of strategic interest to keep me clamoring to have another go at it when I walk off the 18th. From a difficulty standpoint, it's not a pushover yet my last time there I hit it reasonably (decent, but nothing special), yet I didn't miss a fairway and shot a few shots under the course rating. All of these factors together would make it very difficult FOR ME to include it near the top of the heap. It may be interchangeable in the 8 through 12 spots (those are arbitrary numbers, so don't ask me to list my top 12) with some others, but above that I would have a hard time swallowing any justification.

It's definitely worth a visit, but I wouldn't want someone to think that they are going to be awestruck when they walk away from it.

Just my $0.02.

Regards,

Sobe

Kirk Gill

Re:Wuskowhan and Point o' Woods clubs
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2006, 09:17:33 PM »
I love the varied opinions that a seemingly simple question can bring. That's one of the reasons I enjoy this site so much.

My opportunity may come at a charity event held over these two courses later this summer (there are several golfers at my company vying for the available slots).

If I get "in" I will post photos and opinions at that point.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Anthony_Nysse

Re:Wuskowhan and Point o' Woods clubs
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2006, 09:42:48 PM »




Ken,
By that logic most of the people that complain about the Point's narrow fairway corridors must not be very accurate drivers  ;D



Classic comment......I just think that the greens at Lost Dunes are over the top and I don't beleieve that I'm a poor putter. ;) If I want a big man's course where I can find a good game with solid, low digest players, I'm going to The Point. If I want to wow some clients and have a course to myself, I'd go to Lost Dunes. Considering I'm in the golf business and don't have clients, you can guess where I'd be going!

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Ken Fry

Re:Wuskowhan and Point o' Woods clubs
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2006, 09:54:43 PM »
By that logic most of the people that complain about the Point's narrow fairway corridors must not be very accurate drivers  ;D

By the same token Andy, I've seen you drive the ball so the validity of your point goes out the window.   ;)   ;D

Doug Sobieski

Re:Wuskowhan and Point o' Woods clubs
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2006, 10:05:08 PM »
Tony:

Sorry to jump into your conversation with Ken and Andy, but I think that the lack of unique interest in the greens at POW is one of its shortcomings. They lack any real character in my opinion. They are too similar to the greens at 100's of other good golf courses. There are few features of any of the greens that I vividly remember, let alone can't wait to play again and again. On the other hand, there are features in the greens at Lost Dunes that I can't wait to challenge again. For example, landing my ball on the domed front half of the 14th green and trying to feed my ball back to a hole location. Once your ball makes landfall on the greens at POW, nothing much happens after that. That is a lack of strategy to me. On the other hand, Lost Dunes requires that you figure out what is going to happen after it lands. Do you think Crystal Downs' or Kingsley's greens are "over the top"?

Also, from the tee POW is very one-dimensional. Keep it between the trees, and not much else. The more I think about it, the less strategy I see at POW, i.e. there isn't a lot of thinking required. I guess if "not tricked up" is what you are looking for, POW has it ;D

All the best,

Doug

Brian Cenci

Re:Wuskowhan and Point o' Woods clubs
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2006, 10:14:56 PM »
I've never played Point O' Woods, but you can't have a discussion about the best courses in Michigan without talking about Lakewood Shores - Gailes.  
 
In  Michigan (of what I've played):
1 - Crystal Downs
2 - Lakewood Shores (Gailes)
3 - Greywalls
4 - Oakland Hills (South)
5 - Kingsley Club
6 - Bay Harbor
7 - Forest Dunes
8 - Tullymore
9 - Buck's Run
10 - Thoroughbred

Anthony_Nysse

Re:Wuskowhan and Point o' Woods clubs
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2006, 06:44:14 AM »

Quote

I just think that the greens at Lost Dunes are over the top
Quote

I don't think that the greens at The Downs or Kingsley are over the top because their speed isn't over the top. Michigan State and The DOwns have just completed a huge study in regards to greens speeds relevant with countours and I think the guys at LD should take a look at it. I'm all for interesting greens contouring, but it has to be maintained accordingly. Just like the greens at Long Cove, they really become too tough, almost unfair anything over 11.5-there isn't enough flat spots and too much movement.
  Brian-Thoroughbred isn't even a Top 10 pubic course in the state....#2 and #12 are 2 of the WORST holes anywhere on any course.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
« Last Edit: April 15, 2006, 11:08:16 AM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Doug Sobieski

Re:Wuskowhan and Point o' Woods clubs
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2006, 09:24:07 AM »

  Brian-Thoroughbred isn't even a Top 10 pubic course in the state....#2 and #12 are 2 of the WORST holes anywhere on any course.


Tony:

Now there is something we agree 100% on! :D If someone asks me what the worst hole I've EVER seen is, #2 at Thoroughbred is the first thing that comes to mind. It's as if Art Hills designed it without knowing that players would ever actually have to play it and hole out.

Regarding the green speeds at Lost Dunes, I guess I'm just surprised that you found them that outrageous. On my visits there I felt they were remarkably FUN!!! Blondes vs. Brunettes I suppose ;D

All the best,

Doug  
« Last Edit: April 15, 2006, 10:29:43 AM by Doug Sobieski »

Anthony_Nysse

Re:Wuskowhan and Point o' Woods clubs
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2006, 11:10:53 AM »

Quote

Blondes vs. Brunettes I suppose ;D
 
Quote

That's good stuff right there! ;D I'm a blonde guy! Doug, it could have been the time of the year I was there too. I was there in the fall.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Andy Troeger

Re:Wuskowhan and Point o' Woods clubs
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2006, 12:44:13 PM »
By that logic most of the people that complain about the Point's narrow fairway corridors must not be very accurate drivers  ;D

By the same token Andy, I've seen you drive the ball so the validity of your point goes out the window.   ;)   ;D

Ken,
I didn't say that you had to be an accurate driver to like the course! I haven't found a halfway-decent course yet that actually matched my game...or any course for that matter. When you hit it crooked and can't putt there isn't a whole lot left! :)

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