Opinions sought on 18th holes...

[V. Kmetz]

Hello,

"Rather than thinking about 18 as a single hole I like to think of it in the context of the finishing three or four holes.  How does it fit within these holes?...has good balance and when I play them in even par or one over I feel good. "

I'm glad this was mentioned..."balance"... that was perhaps part of the original invitation to weigh in that I didn't voice as loudly. How much does an 18th hole have to shoulder, to preserve the character of balance in a course? Because it always concludes whatever type of segment you feel in the course...last 3 holes, last 6 holes, last 9 holes, the whole 18... doesn't it have to account--more than any other hole--for what comes before it, at least to some degree?

cheers

vk

[Paul Gray]

The convention of the short/mid length par 4, for me at least, remains a convention worth keeping. There are many good ones but a particularly favourite of mine is the somewhat original 18th at Camberley Heath.

[Patrick_Mucci]

VKmetz,

Many like very difficult par 4's, but, think about the 18th in the context of two members, all even in a match, coming to the 18th tee.

Do you really want a hole where neither of them can make a par unless they hit a great 3rd shot or sink a long putt.

Do you really want a hole where par is beyond their ability and birdie is not even a fantasy ?

I happen to love Knollwood's finishing hole, although, it might not be a shining example of the above.

Some holes seem excessively difficult.

Do we really want to cultivate a culture of a punishing finishing hole ?

Or, do you prefer the finishing holes at Sebonack and NGLA ?

I like the finishing holes at Shinnecock, Southampton and Westhampton as I think they give most members a fighting chance.

[V. Kmetz]

PM,

Especially after seeing some comments, I'm inclined to agree with your insinuation.

And certainly, Knollwood 18 is NOT a shining example. I have played and caddied it 40-50 times and its my opinion that it is the single toughest finisher in Westchester, maybe the Met. It's one of the hardest "4"s under 460 yards anywhere. I have seen many, many pars and some birdies on the 18th on WFW, Hudson National, etc.

One of the better finishers I've seen (if we're talking holes 280 - 460 yds in length), that fits many of the characteristics I see people extolling here, is Apawamis. A lot of charm, visual interest and solvable for a great population of golfers.

cheers

vk