Question for the Architects

[Mickey Boland]

All of us in our various business lives have things we look back at and say "Gee, I wish I would have done it this way, or changed this, or modified this term, etc."  Sometimes we get the opportunity to do just that, sometimes not.  

Do you look back at your projects and say "Man, that didn't turn out how I thought it would" or "I wish I was able to change this" etc.  How often do you get the chance to actually make some changes after a course is up and running, and do you take advantage of those opportunities?  Any examples you care to offer?

[Ian Andrew]

Do you look back at your projects and say "Man, that didn't turn out how I thought it would" or "I wish I was able to change this" etc.  
The answer should be yes for everyone.
I think if you don't find better ways of doing things each year, you've stopped learning. If you think you did everything right, your standards are too low
How often do you get the chance to actually make some changes after a course is up and running, and do you take advantage of those opportunities?
Every once and a while a do-over is presented - I'm not taking holes or even greens, usually its a bunker or new tees, something simple that adds to the course.
  Any examples you care to offer?  
You likely won't get an answer to this - it's like publicly admitting mistakes. I'll do that with friends, but an open forum seems to be a poor choice of places.

[Forrest Richardson]

I think we all wish certain things were different. That is part of any design process/result.

Rarely does the anatomy of a course get changed...too costly. That is why it is so crucial to plan, shape and sculpt well in the first place...there is hardly ever a "second place"...and if there is, someone is likely to pay!

[Yannick Pilon]

I haven't done much on my own, yet.  But everything I did I wish I could go back and tweek a little.  It's mostly details, but there is always something....

The construction process is so long and complicated, that sometimes, you only see the the little things once they are built and grassed.  Most of the time though, I find its things most golfers will never even notice (or at least I hope they won't...).

On other occasions, even when you think you have outdone yourself, you just need to calm down a little, and look back at your work a few weeks or a few months later.  I guarantee, there will, again, be things you wish you could change!

I believe any architect who honestly says that everything is perfect on any course he has designed, is either a liar, or he has the biggest ego on the planet!  Unless maybe if you actually build the thing yourself with no cost or time limit....

Naah! Even then....  It will never be perfect!  That's why I love this job so much!

[Tom_Doak]

Most of the time I feel quite happy with the end result, and you have to be able to let go of that stuff sooner or later if you are ever going to enjoy playing your own courses.

I don't think I've stopped learning, Ian.  I think we're getting better to the point where there isn't much to fix.  You can always second guess yourself (and so can anyone else), but my only experience with watching someone renovate his own work has been via Pete Dye, and I wasn't sure that all of his changes were positive.

I would do some things at High Pointe much differently if we were working there today, but I have very little interest in going back and doing it over.

[Forrest Richardson]

Ian — Aren't you set to renovate High Pointe?

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

I can probably count on one hand the features I designed that I consider to be, in my own opinion, "tweaking not required".  

But like those who answered above, I think every honest architect, and certainly every architect who truly loves what he does and wants to keep pushing himself and improving, that almost EVERYTHING we do we probably look back on and think "hmm...".  Anything from slope on a green to a bunker lip to an entire course.

Some things you really don't like, others can be so minor that if you pointed them out to anyone they'd think you're nuts.  I was working on a bunker renovation program a couple of years ago, and remember this tiny little knob that I had asked the shaper to put in, but grassed-over it ended up being a few INCHES too high, for my liking.  I mean, the bunker looked pretty darned good.  But all I kept seeing was this knob!  

Like Tom says, though.  Sometimes we just have to let go, or else we'd never be able to enjoy our courses, or this game...

[Sean Walsh]

This thread got me thinking whether to avoid making any major mistakes that can't be tidied up later any of you employ the services of anything akin to an editor.  

Someone who's word and observations you trust and react well too.  

Or are you yourself the editor for the design team you employ?  Or is that more the model for the larger signature type firms?

[Ian Andrew]

Forrest,

"restore" High Pointe

Tom,

I'm curious, what would you do different at High Pointe (ignoring 18 because you have mentioned that in the past)?

While Pete's tweaking has brought criticism, some like Ross's work at Pinehuest have brought brilliance.

Sean,

I personally don't think your example works, you are the writer and editor, although you do accept contributions by others. In golf you must make your own decisions.

What your getting is not a series of self doubts, but the nature of creative people, "everything can likely be done better".

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mickey,

Ditto what the others say. Yeah, I would keep tweaking.

You have to realize that a decision has to be made at some point in time and make it.  As such, any hole design is merely reflective of the gca's opinion that day or time frame.  A year later, he/she would likely make a different decision because there is more than one way to design any hole.

I go through an almost predictable sequence regarding my courses.  I love em when I am doing them, hate em about 5 years out, and then have a good perspective about ten years out, appreciating what I was trying to do and thinking most of it was pretty cool.

Of course, there are always a few misses, often in details no one else would notice.  And courses evolve. More than that, after ten years there are often superintendent and management changes, and if they don't understand what you do, the course can change quite quickly.  Or, as in the case of the "new economic reality" they can change for dollars and cents/sense reasons.

So, its like the Texas weather, if you don't like something, wait a while, its likely to change........
Which is why we learn to let go.

[Mickey Boland]

Thanks for the replies, guys.  About what I expected to hear.  But, I was really hoping for real-life examples, even if you have to change the names (or omit the names) to protect the innocent.