[Glenn Spencer]

Mayday,

I don't see how one is supposed to infer that you were asking why someone with access to Shinnecock would go over to Scotland and Ireland. If that is the question, I think it just revolves around the fact that there are so many great, famous courses that are near each other and they would like to experience "a different type of golf"

[mike_malone]

 Glenn,
    I think the resaon some choose NGLA over Shinny is their architectural preference. And the reason people are drawn to play overseas is the architectural differences. These are two examples where architecture matters.

[Jason Topp]

Of the courses, I would consider my home course over my life - 3 were very basic 60's era courses - Bunker Hills (MN), Randolph North (Tucson) and Ken Macdonald (Tempe) and three classic courses with more interesting architecture Waveland (IA), Oak Ridge (MN) and University of Minnesota.

I enjoy the game at both types of venues.  The challenge of hitting a good shot would exist if all you had was a tee and a hole in a flat field.  The social aspect would still exist and the competitive element would still exist.

I do not look down at all on people that think that a typical muni is an enjoyable place to play the game.  To the contrary, I agree.

Great architecture, however, makes the game more interesting  and I think it does for any player regardless of whether he is aware of it.  Any hole that presents different reasonable options for hitting a shot presents an added dimension of the game, and does so regardless of whether one is thinking about the quality of the hole.  Great ground contour adds a sense of mystery and adventure to the round and a player need not be aware of the reason for that added aspect of the game.  Great green complexes provide interesting short game challenges, regardless of whether one is aware that he is dealing with something unique.  

[Garland Bayley]

...
I have a good friend who used to be w/ the Golf Channell & he said there is no way a show on architecture would ever make it. They get viewers to improve their games.
...

I don't believe this. Make a show where Jack plays with Tom Paul. On each hole have them explain their strategy and how the architecture feeds into that. Have them play a classic course where Tom Paul's game is the most fun and Jack's is all smash and wedge. Then have them play a course set up for the tour and show how the course becomes significantly less interesting for Tom. Through the magic of TV they could show play alternating between the courses.

Do not put Pete Dye or Tom Doak on a show and have them explain why the built the holes. The show is for golfers to watch, not architects.

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Mike's new thread on distance and why we should care got me thinking.

Except for a fraction of golfers, plus the Tour guys, what does architecture matter.  Has it ever happened to you that you say, I love this hole, and everyone you are playing with looks at you funny??  To the weekend golfer all they care about is courses that look cool right, maybe some water that hopefully they can avoid, coollooking grasses, beer girl (OK, maybe we all like that...).  But do they really appreciate the architecture of a course??  How many golfers actually care and understand golf architecture??

I know that I absolutely love thinking on a golf course.  But when on almost every hole I have to explain to my dad why the hole is great due to its strategy and not it looks it can become frustrating.  If there was no strategy as in thinking your way around a golf course, what percentage of golfers would actually know and understand that??

Jordon,

I appreciate your feeling about this topic, however without knowing much about a lot of things including say for instance architecture or art I can tell you when I encounter something that really strikes me as great, it gives me pleasure when I view it or experience it, and to have someone there by my side telling me why it isn't great architecture or art at some point would either cause me to strangle them or I would simply make certain I wasn't with them when I went to see it.  Ultimately the person needs to show personal initiative if they want to learn more and become more discriminating rather than having someone tell them what is great and what is not great.  And frankly who's to say you know what you're talking about.  I just read a story about the way Robert fros used to teach his english class and rather than tell his students what the great books were and then anaylize for them why the books were great he would have them read long passages aloud.  In other words he exposed them to great works and then let them personal experience the work by reading out loud and they then began to learn the rythams and structure by reading.  He would instruct them on pronunciation and annuciation but not bereak it down rule by rule as to what makes great literature.  Similiarly by you exposing your dad to great golf courses he may begin to formulate his own understanding rather than having someone constantly telling him why its great.  

[Jordan Wall]

Kelly, you are very correct.

The only problem is that with my dad and his ailing back, golf has gotten to be lower standard compared to family, which is still great, just not in the golf aspect.  He is still very interested in golf, but he is becoming aware that many of these great courses he might not be able to play.  Travel is also hard and somewhat expensive, so we cannot always get to where we need to play some of these courses.  But, every year we try and make one trip, and we always golf on those trips.  Hopefully before he stops golf we will get to some of the places he really wants to go.  The thing is though, by me actually explaining to him about architecture, while it might get frustrating at times, it will give him a good understanding of the architecture part when he finally does play some of these great courses.  That way he can appreciate all aspects of the course.  He is starting to definitely gain a good understanding of good architecture and thats makes me happy for him and also helps him enjoy the golf more.

[Kyle Harris]

I care, we care, and I surely get frustrated when people say how horrible hole or a course is without even understanding it.  Hopefully someday golf will get to the point where all golfers can enjoy it and understand it[/color].  Will this ever happen, and is it our responsibility to make this actually happen??

Jordan,

If that happened, the game would die. I don't think any of us claim to fully understand the intricacies of this game, and that's mainly why we can continue to tee it up at our favorite golf courses. Somehow, somewhere, further understanding will be gained by playing.

The allure of arts like architecture, painting and golf architecture is that complete understanding will never come. Our interpretations of the golf course are the sum of all our past golf experiences, and each person has a different angle to come from.

We could stand on a tee of a great golf hole and you can see one thing that I would never see and vice versa. It's a beautiful thing, no?

[Doug Siebert]

Jordan,

Does it matter that it only matters to a small portion of golfers?  I don't think so.  Does it matter that great architecture (in the buildings and houses sense) is lost on most people?  Does it matter to a woman that few straight guys can tell that they have the latest pair of shoes from the new hot Italian designer instead of what was hot last year?  Does it matter to those who love classic cars that few people understand why a late 60s/early 70s Dodge with a numbers matching 440 six pack is far more desireable than one with an identical replica engine?

Its admireable to try to get other people to understand why we look at golf courses differently than they do, but don't beat your head against the wall.  If your dad doesn't "get it", that's fine.  I think you'll be sane longer if you just drop hints about the architectural features with people who play with, and get into a conversation with those who are interested and don't try to convert those who aren't.  They probably find us annoying if we are too pushy, much like a Jehovah's Witness ringing one's doorbell when there's a football game on!

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()