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Mike_Cirba

What the H*@# do you try on 10 & 11 at Shinnie?
« on: November 29, 2002, 09:46:38 AM »
;) ??? :-/ :'( ;D

Shinnecock has long been compared to Muirfield as a tough, demanding, test of golf that is ultimately "fair" in its demands without being overly penal.

Certainly one plays most of the front nine and the comparison holds up.  In a way, Shinnecock to that point may have been one of the earliest "hard par/easy bogey" courses.  While the approach to the stringently uphill ninth might foreshadow what is to come, there is nothing that anyone might call unfair or potentially disastrous to that point.

Then one comes to the roller-coaster 10th and from the largely blind tee shot to the shelf-like green perched high above the fairway to the ungainly right-hand twist in the driving zone which plummets to a bowl below, there is nothing the least bit conventional about it.  Trying to hit and hold the green, particularly downwind, is an exercise in futility.  I'd love to see what percentage of approaches either go beyond the green (leaving a terrifying downhill chip), or land short and get sucked back 50 yards below.  

Where do people here try to position the tee shot to gain advantage on the approach?  Do you try to get one down into the valley, or lay up at the top of the hill?  Which works under which wind conditions?  Any of them?  ;)

Then the 11th!  SHEESH!!  158 uphill yards of sheer insanity!  Is there a more difficult short par three anywhere in the world, besides perhaps the Postage Stamp?  Given the small size of the green and the falloffs on each side, is there any preferred place to miss?  

After that, the course settles back into something more akin to it's reputation as demanding but fair.  Still, it's hard to ever forget that funhouse of horrors through the turn where almost any number is possible to record and where one attempts to walk through on eggshells.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: What the H*@# do you try on 10 & 11 at Shinnie
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2002, 10:19:01 AM »
Mike Cirba:

On #10 at Shinnecock, I would prefer to hit from on top of the hill. The shot is difficult enough, so I don't want to add blindness to the equation.

I'll always have a memory of Greg Norman's struggle. If I do better than Greg did I can fantasize about it ever now and then. If I fail, I can always think "well, even Greg Norman had trouble...".

However, hitting from the bottom of the hill just doesn't offer the same satisfaction.

As for #11, great par 3, obviously. I don't know of any good place to miss.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What the H*@# do you try on 10 & 11 at Shinnie
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2002, 10:43:42 AM »
I posted a thread a few years ago about "Is the 10th @ Shinny a good hole" and there were dozens of responses.  After playing the hole numerous times (hitting driver) and never making a par I have to agree with Tim that you have to lay up on top of the hill which allows a better view but also a bette angle.  Ray Floyd confirmed this with me and I think he knows a little about Shinnecock.

11 is as Lee Trevino says is the easiest par 5 on the course. You may be able to get it up and down if you are slightly short or in the bunker.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: What the H*@# do you try on 10 & 11 at Shinnie
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2002, 10:59:18 AM »
Mike Cirba:

I should add that I have only played Shinnecock one time, but was with a very gracious host playing when hardly anyone was on the course.

He advised laying up. I did so. Then I hit my approach slightly long, very cautiously played my pitch back and two putted for bogey.

But, we each hit about three balls from the bottom and I didn't have much success, twice playing too short and having it come back like Norman did. For my last shot I wimped out and hit it way too far over. My very first shot from up on the hill was by far the best.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: What the H*@# do you try on 10 & 11 at Shinnie
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2002, 11:22:48 AM »
Mike,

On the 10th I have driven past the ridge and layed up short of it.  Both times I courted disaster as I missed the green but I would concur with Tim Weiman that you don't want to have to add to the difficulty of the approach with blindness.

The 11th..First of all, don't hit any grazing deer like my friend Jim Reilly did.  Absent that, I have played the hole 4 times and have missed the green twice.  The other two times in regulation,  I was above the pin which is death considering the tilt of the green but saved par.  I have missed left and in the front bunker.. If you have to miss anywhere I would miss here especially if the pin is in the back.  I was actually okay thinking I could save par from one of the front bunkers. Missing left  in that chipping area where the lies are dicey and right is really death.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:11 PM by -1 »

GeoffreyChilds

Re: What the H*@# do you try on 10 & 11 at Shinnie
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2002, 11:51:31 AM »
Mike

In the Open in 95, I was there for 4 days and most played to the bottom of the hill on #10. I don't know which is the better play but having been there the bottom of the hill is no bargain especially if you're not in the fairway.  I think this and (coinsidently) #10 at Yale are among the greatest uphill aproaches in the game (#14? at Myopia is pretty good too).  Why is no one building holes like tis anymore?

#11 is just too hard to hold downwind especially. Looking at it I thought front left would be an easy recovery but numerous pros could not get up and down from there in 95.  From my observations sitting in the stands for quite a while I think the front right bunkers might be the easiest place to recover from.  I witnessed Norman make what I thought were 2 remarkable pars from that spot. Over and to the left can be real trouble as I also witnessed Mr. Huckaby play ping pong. My one effort hit the center of the green and went a bit over and to the left side of the green. I was able to make my birdie 4 from there  ;D .
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: What the H*@# do you try on 10 & 11 at Shinnie
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2002, 12:46:57 PM »
Geoffrey Childs:

I'm also a big fan of #10 at Yale (along with the entire golf course!).

You raise an interesting question about why holes like this aren't being built anymore, but I'm more interested in what it was like to play them given the technology of the day.

How hard was #10 at Yale when the course opened? How much club did guys need to reach the green? Was it actually a three shot (or maybe 2 1/2 shot hole) for the average guy?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyChilds

Re: What the H*@# do you try on 10 & 11 at Shinnie
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2002, 01:15:33 PM »
Tim- for many "average players" even today the 10th at Yale is a three shot hole from the normal/original tee across the road into the course. They simply can't hit it far enough to get down the hill or just down the hill but with still way too much club required to carry up to the green. I can't imagine how difficult that hole was when the course first opened  ::) . A saving grace of sorts was the course played much firmer most of the year and balls hitting the top of the hill could bound long distances down the hill and fairway. Its a tough uphill shot that I really need to be in the fairway or a very reasonable lie in the rough to be able to make that carry.

A distinct difference between Yale and Shinnecock is that the Yale 2nd shot is a forced carry over the front bunker. I'd like to know if members at Shinnecock can hit a wood into that hole and run it up the hill? The deep front bunker and the (severe) false front at Shinnecock present different problems.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: What the H*@# do you try on 10 & 11 at Shinnie
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2002, 01:44:08 PM »
Geoffrey:

Thanks for the perspective on #10 at Yale. I'd love to spend  several hours on a busy day just watching people play to that green.

I suppose you might bounce up the hill on #10 at Shinnecock, but with my limited experience I can't say I have seen it done. Just a hunch, but a nice draw into the hole might work. Any kind of cut on the ball will get killed by the hill, I suspect.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyChilds

Re: What the H*@# do you try on 10 & 11 at Shinnie
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2002, 05:09:09 PM »
Tim

It wouldn't be a pretty sight (spending a couple of hours on a busy day watching players hit approaches to the 10th at Yale).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: What the H*@# do you try on 10 & 11 at Shinnie
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2002, 05:21:51 PM »
Geoffrey:

John McMillan and I spent about twenty minutes one day watching groups come through #5 at Pinehurst #2. It made us both appreciate what Ross created.

As good as that hole is, I'd be more interested in spending time on #10 at Yale.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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