Does Squash have the answer?

[Brian Phillips]

Sean,

It still comes down to in the end of having a match ball for the Pros who are deccimating classic courses.

I just had another thought!  Courses like Pine Valley, TOC etc could then use Dan King's suggestion.

If The Open is played at TOC in 2020 and it is getting short then the R&A could then decide that the 275 ball will be used in this tournament.

The week after everyone is back to the PGA tour on 8000 yard courses and the PGA allow a 300 ball.

Instead of lengthening all our classic courses the choice of ball could be adjusted accoding to the length of the course.

To answer your thought about amateurs; a club or course can decide themselves which maximum ball is allowed in legal format on that course. That would somewhere around a 325-350 ball.  If you choose to use a 275 ball off the back tee maybe you receive 2 extra strokes...?

It can be done and it would be a goldmine of money for the manufacturers which is the only thing that is stopping any dial back at the moment.

Brian.

[Willie_Dow]

Yes, squash has the answer!  Not only in its ball, but its racquet.
The old bamboo Craig & Simplex, or the Bancroft, kept the game alive in the USA.  Hardball was a quick and beautiful game, with few lets.
Then came the killer racquets.  The hardball went so fast it could break a bone in your opponet.  Lets went sky high, and tempers followed.
What a shame!

[ForkaB]

For all this 200, 250, 300, 350 etc. ball crap I think (hope?) The King is joking.

Here is a simplified but knowledgable assessment as to how this scenario would work out:

Ball       Player     Distance Hit

250       Tiger      300
300       Tiger      350
350       Tiger      400

250       King        225
300       King        225
350       King        225
           

[Brian Phillips]

Rich,

Why don't you simplify it just a little....

I agree with you on the Tiger distances but do not agree with you on the King distances.  I agree the spread would not be as large as Tiger but there would be some difference.

Are you saying that you do not have any difference between a ball 5 years ago and a new ball now?  There is no difference at all?

Willie,

I never played the hard ball game so I do not know the difference. I think the softball game is beautiful as well...with not too many lets if you get two good players who really want to play squash and not argue with the ref...

Brian

[Sean_A]

Brian

I haven't gained any distance since I was 17, 25 years ago.  Alright, I have gained in the sense that I should be hitting it not so far as when I was 17.  I am not fit, so this is down to ball and stick.  Mind you, I was a better player as a teenager.  The strange thing is that I am shorter with my irons now.  They are the same irons I had as a teenager.  Perhaps I would be even shorter if not for the ball.

Ciao

[Kyle Harris]

Sean,

Your shafts could be dead, that is, if they are the EXACT same irons you had as a teenager.

[ForkaB]

Brian

I haven't really gained any distance in the past 25 years, except for the very rare time when I get the launch angle right and my swing speed and timing cooperate.  Maybe once or twice a year.  Other than that, it's just as Sean says--same old, same old.  Dan King wasn't quite as long as I when we last played, so I assume the same is true for him.  But then again, nobody could hit the driver from 30 yards short of the green as skillfully as he could.........

[Brian Phillips]

Rich,

Have you lost any distance?

Brian

[ForkaB]

Brian

What does "same old, same old" mean?  To me, it means "no."  I probably have to rely more on timing than brute strength to hit it far these days, but that was always the case, even with persimmons and balatas.

PS--I played atattie old "Professional" at Deal last year with Sean et. al. and hit it as far as the ProVI until I hit it so far (and so far off line) that I lost it!

[Sean_A]

Kyle

Shafts die?  I've never heard of this.  My irons are the same set except for a few I replaced, but they are all from the same period.  I just assumed shafts last forever assuming they don't break or rust.

Brian

I can attest to the fact that Rich hit an old balata ball for a few holes.  I didn't notice any real difference in length.  If I recall he was within a bump and run of my drives.  Rich and I hit it about the same distance-250ish.  I don't recall how he did with it against the wind.

Ciao

[Kyle Harris]

Sean,

Shafts wear just the same as any other part of the club. It's more of a knicks and scratches thing that just builds over time. I'll bet they feel a bit softer than they used to, though comparing that is awful difficult since the change is gradual.

Epoxy gets loose as well, which can affect clubhead twisting.

[Brian Phillips]

Rich,

You are one of the few I know that has not gained any distance over the last 5-10 years.

Cheers,

Brian

[Tom Huckaby]

Brian - add me to that few.

I believe I'm like Sean - I haven't lost distance, which in and of itself is something given I have gotten a little older and a lot fatter, but still, I also haven't gained distance.

And the same can be said for quite a few higher-handicap guys I play with.  What technology has done is allow us to pretend we're still young.  But no one I know - except a few low handicap very big hitters - is bombing it out past where he did 10 years ago.

TH

[SPDB]

Sean - As a fairly longtime Neil Young fan, I consider it my duty to notify you that the lyrics quoted in your footer are wrong.

[Dan King]

Sean Arble writes:
I assume there would be no choice in the selection of balls.  Otherwise, low cappers could still choose the hot ball and this doesn't solve the issue of distance. 

Of course there would be choice. The Committee would make the choice for a tournament, but otherwise play whichever ball you want. If big-hitting low-handicappers play the longest ball, then they won't face the same challenge on the course as if they choose the shorter ball. Do we care if they choose not to be challenged?

Afterall, friendly play is the backbone of golf!  How is it decided who hits which ball?

I can't even think of a reason why I would care.

Rich Goodale writes:
For all this 200, 250, 300, 350 etc. ball crap I think (hope?) The King is joking.

Not at all. I don't see why such a voluntary system can't work.

Here is a simplified but knowledgable assessment as to how this scenario would work out:

Ball      Player    Distance Hit

250      Tiger      300
300      Tiger      350
350      Tiger      400

250      King        225
300      King        225
350      King        225

You could be right, but far as I know, nobody is adding yardage to golf courses because of me. Nobody is upset that I'm hitting the ball to far. I think there is some difference between balls for me, but obviously not the same differences as for Tiger. So who cares what ball I use?

For guys like us this ball revolution came to late. We are stuck with our 1960's era swings, overly cautious because of concern of spin. The younger kids, (Bubba is just the tip of the iceberg) are learning a very different swing from ours.

You are going to see more and more big hitters over the next decade. For all those insisting that we've seen the end of the distance the ball travels, they are in for a big surprise. There is nothing special about Bubba Watson.

Dan King

We keep worrying about Tiger (Woods), Ernie (Els) and Phil (Mickelson) and guys like Bubba Watson are going to come up,
 --Vijay Singh

[JohnV]

Dan King give me too much credit.  I did say that it would be easy to deal with two different kinds of balls under the handicap system.  It would simply require two different course rating/slope numbers, exactly like we deal with two sets of tees.  That could obviously be expanded under Dan's idea to support multiple strengths of balls.

Perhaps it could also be expanded to support those who play hickories, persimmon/steel or titanium/graphite.  Then everyone could be happy.

[Dan King]

John Vander Borght writes:
Perhaps it could also be expanded to support those who play hickories, persimmon/steel or titanium/graphite.  Then everyone could be happy.
 
 This might all be meaningless to me. I want to try and learn how to make my own featheries. I have access to unlimited amount of chicken and goose feathers. I need a decent top hat to measure the amount of feathers.
 
 Dan King
 

Had the gutta-percha golf ball not been invented, it is likely enough that golf itself would now be in the catalogue of virtually extinct games, only locally surviving, as stool-ball and knurr and spell.
  --Horace Hutchinson, 1899

[Mike_Sweeney]

I played squash tonight with my son, who is very quickly catching up to me in a number of sports. I borrowed a new hi-tech racquet from the Pro. I smoked the kid and bought the racquet!

There was a Ran-like character playing with a very old very small wooden squash racquet. I continue to be respectful of these traditions from a distance!

PS. We played with a two yellow dot ball.