More Ross in Jersey - Crestmont CC

[Mike_Sweeney]

It popped up on my radar for potential in 2006. I have not played it and it is described as, "Crestmont is a private country club located in the western portion of Essex County on 264 partially wooded acres. Our most treasured asset is our outstanding Donald Ross designed 18 hole golf course with its beautifully manicured greens, gently rolling hills and ponds. This all lends to a truly extraordinary golf experience."

Has anyone played it? Matt? Patrick?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

My father was a member there in the late 40's.
I used to fish in the pond on # 8.

It's an interesting golf course on an unusual piece of property for around here.

Ron Forse recently did a restoration that came out nicely.

I like the golf course, it has some terrific holes.
Increased green speeds have had both a positive and negative effect on the course, as they've had on many courses.

Given the chance you should definitely play it, it's right across the street from Essex Fells, a Seth Raynor course, so play there as well.

And, if you play it, I'm very close by and will buy you dinner.

The pro is Pete Famiano, a terrific fellow and player.

"Golf Clubs of the MGA" features articles on both Crestmont (page 152) and Essex Fells (page 158)

[T_MacWood]

I'm not sure what the course is like today, but from some older photos this course looked to be very interesting. Very well bunkered and not the aetypical bunkering one sees today on many Ross's courses. It was nearly treeless when it was established. On the Ross photo quiz of last year many guessed Oakmont.

[Bob_Farrell]

Mike:

Crestmont is really  a good golf course. If you get the chance, don't miss it.

I have played it regularly since the 60's when we used to sneak on as kids on Saturday and Sunday afternoons when there was very little play on the course. Myself and two other friends eventually met up with Pat Schwab who was the pro at the time, and he used to join us because there were no members playing!!

As Pat said, with the speed of the greens increasing, the course has taken on a new flavor. For the NJ Senior Open aout 4 years ago they were lightning. They are basically round greens with back to front tilt, so anything past the pin is death defying. And a lot of them are very small.

It is a good layout with some really testing holes. And Pete Famiano is a terrific guy, along with one of his assistants, Robin Curtis, who used to be at my club. I'm sure they will accomodate you if they can.

BF

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

Only can echo what has been said.

The thing about Crestmont is that it gets so little attention but the actual design elements that Ross and later through the involvement of Forse are still quite good.

The course is situated on a beautiful rolling site and the placement of the bunkers is artfully and strategically well done.

The sad issue is that some of the greens were angled with plenty of back-to-front tilt and when grass cuts are made today the overall speed can be a bit over-the-top.

A classis example is the par-3 11th. It's an uphill par-3 of roughly 165-170 yards but the green is tilted a good bit as I just described. When green speeds get out of control the likelihood is that many golfers will simply play skee-ball with every putt. In a recent State Open this situation happened to a number of competitors and it's a shame because the memory of just one hole can distort the entire picture of such a fun course.

One of the better holes -- and one of the best long par-3's in all of New Jersey -- comes at Crestmont's 17th hole. You play from a slightly elevated tee and the hole can stretch to 230 yards. The green is contoured appropriately and here Ross calls upon the player to hit an absolutely pute approach to a tight green flanked by some of the more well done bunkers you will find there.

Crestmont is a very underrated gem on the Jersey golf scene and from my personal experiences I would say it easily would belong in the top 30 of courses in the state.

Ditto the comments on Pete Famiano -- a pro's pro and true gentleman.

P.S. Only small issue I have is the repetition of having two par-5's to close each side and both are uphill in the same particular style.

[fred ruttenberg]

My children belong to Crestmont so I play there several times a year. The renovation several years ago was not complete but affected only a few holes. Matt is quite correct about some of the greens such as 11 and 14. With current green speeds they can become unputtable. The course is tired in many respects  (bunkers, new tees) and could use a complete restoration. Fortunately that is probably coming. The club recently approved the sale of an adjacent parcel . Some of the proceeds are to be used for improvements to the course. With proper attention this could become one of the better tracts in New Jersey.

[redanman]

Renée played it last year in the Breast Cancer-Janie Blalock outing and said it was worth seeing but not anywhere near as good as Plainfield. (That leaves a lot! of wiggle room.) I think she said it was not top 100 material, but a lot of really good courses aren't either.

I can't add my comments as I haven't played it, even though it is like 1 mile from my sister's house.  A glaring omission in my Jersey experience.

[Matt_Ward]

The thing about Crestmont is that if you stuck the course in any number of states in the USA it would be among the best you could play -- particularly so for those states with a dearth of quality golf.

The issue for Crestmont -- is that the quality of golf JUST in West Orange, NJ is v-e-r-y high caliber with the likes of Essex County CC and the work George Bahto / Gil Hanse have done there and let me also point out the likes of Montclair GC and its fascinating combo of Ross / Banks with the #2 & #4 nines there.

One can make a very compelling case that Essex County CC and the nine-hole combos at Montclair GC are among the ten best in NJ. Crestmont isn't thaaaat good but it certainly rates a play for any architectural observer here on GCA IMHO.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt Ward,

How could you leave Mountain Ridge off of your Essex County list ?

Rock Spring and Essex County West too.
Forest Hills and Glen Ridge

There's a lot of good golf courses in close proximity to one another.

[Dave Bourgeois]

Not to hijack this thread but but I have been invited to play Forest Hills this spring.  This is my first Private invite since moving to the metro NY area so I pretty geeked to be going.

Has anyone played it?  I believe it is a Tillie layout, can someone confirm.

[Matt_Ward]

Dave B:

Forest Hill is indeed a Tillie layout and worth a look. Don't think it rises to the caliber of Fenway, Somerset Hills, Baltusrol, Bethpage / Black, etc, etc.

The ground is quite hilly and there are a few holes of note. The closing par-3 18th is one that never suffers fools easily.

Pat Mucci:

You need to read what I wrote -- I said in the community of West Orange.

Mountain Ridge, Forest Hills and Glen Ridge are all fun in their own way -- but clearly Mountain Ridge is ahead of the other two listed above. None of those IMHO is in the same caliber with Essex County (private) and Montclair's #2 & #4 nines. In fact, I believe a good case can be made that Crestmont is the equal of what you see with Mountain Ridge in terms of the Ross effort at both layouts.

Rock Spring is a nice layout but no where near the caliber of Essex County (private) or Montclair's #2 & #4 nines. In fact, I believe Rock Spring is going through a restoration program now. Be most interesting to see how matters turn out.

I see Crestmont being a clear step or two behind the two titans of Essex County (private) and Montclair's #2 & #4 nines.

Regarding Essex County (public) -- now called Francis Bryne --the course is only a shell of its former self. The greatest mistake was when the private club on the top of the hill decided to bag the course and allow the county government to purchase it. The county soaked the course as a cash cow and never bothered to realize the vast potential it possessed.

The former course was indeed something to behold and I can remember quite vividly the unique challenges it provided with such wonderful holes as the par-3 2nd, the short uphill par-4 4th, the vexing uphill par-4 7th, the equally demanding uphill par-4 12th and the stellar quality of the par-4 15th -- a hole in which Bobby Jones saluted as one of the best he had played during a 36-hole exhibition in the 30's.

Over the course of time Essex County West / Francis Bryne was simply vandalized by inane decisions from a whole host of characters who would not know golf from a street light.

[mark chalfant]

Crestmont has some nice angles, a very nice variety of par 4s
over both gentle and steep terrain.  the strech from 11-17
is excellent. The greens are exceptional. I believe Walter Hatch built the greens for Donald Ross. A sporty layout

[redanman]

Mountain Ridge....

Might be a standout in Iowa or Arkansas, but just another player in Essex Co.

comments and arguments elsewhere....  

[Mike_Sweeney]

Crestmont has some nice angles, a very nice variety of par 4s
over both gentle and steep terrain.  the strech from 11-17
is excellent. The greens are exceptional. I believe Walter Hatch built the greens for Donald Ross. A sporty layout

Matt & Mark,

How would compare it to Raynor's "sporty" Morris County, which we all agree is overlooked.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat Mucci:

You need to read what I wrote -- I said in the community of West Orange.

In that case, you left off Rock Spring which is also in the community of West Orange.

When you consider that another golf course was in West Orange between Montclair and Essex County East, running from Prospect down to Pleasant Valley way, on the site of what's now the Essex Green Shopping Plaza and residential homes, West Orange may have been the golf capital of the U.S.[/color]

Mike Sweeney,

Morris County is more "Raynoresque"

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

Crestmont likely has the slightest of edges in terms of overall quality of land -- although the one Morris County has is quite good in a number of spots.

Pat mentioned the Raynor hand at Morris County and for those who are fans of his work you can see so much of uniqueness beyond the tired replicas of holes he has created at several other courses.

Frankly, I too agree that Morris County is vastly underrated on the design side. For those who believe that Ward is only interested in the 75+ CR and 150+ type courses in the world you will be sadly misinformed concerning my extreme fondness for this Convent Station jewel.

Morris County really is about three different personalities. The first six holes are all on the short side. You have a very interesting start with three holes that vary quite well. The opening hole is just beyond 300 yards but it is well done. The fairway bobs and weaves like the ocean and the green is slanted on a diagonal from right-to-left going downhill with a fronting bunker. It is VERY easy to walk away with a bogey on this hole.

The 2nd is a Raynor gem. A short par-5 that forces the player to decide if going over a huge hill in the drive zone is the perfect play. The hole that follows is an OK short par-3 of roughly 125 yards. At the 4th you play another wonderful short par-4 with a green that features a narrow pencil extention on the far left side. The 5th is simply Ok but at the 6th you play another short par-4 that climbs slowly from the tee and has a slight turn to the left in the drive zone. The approach must be feathered EXTREMELY SOFTLY to a green that is surrounded by sand and offers as much space as a closet in a cheap motel.

Morris County comes to life in a big time way with the second act. The 7th at 452 yards is apty named Big Ben because candidly I see it among the finest par-4's in all of Jersey golf. Simply a superb hole that uses the existing land in tour de force manner. The hole can be described but it must be viewed to be totally appreciated.

The 8th and 9th holes are equally demanding long par-4's and Raynor has served notice that whatever low scores you may have earned in the first six holes you can easily give them back on the final three holes for the side.

The 10th is another standout long par-4 that usually plays into the prevailing south/southwest wind.

The final six holes at Morris County are a solid array of different holes. You start with par-3 13th -- a redan like hole but much softer in terms of the green angle then say the 2nd at Somerset Hills.

I'm a big fan of the final hole at Morris County -- I believe it's one of the most underrated we have in Jersey because it puts plenty of pressure on the tee shot / approach. The player hits downhill to a landing area that's pressed from the left with H20 and to the right with rough / trees. The green is generally blind to nearly all locations from the fairway. And the player must be sure to hit plenty of club to get it all the way to the hole.

Morris County is simply ignored by way too many people. I try to bring people to the course when time allows because too often people only trek to the usual suspects like Baltusrol, Ridgewood and Plainfield, to name just three.

The qualities of both Crestmont and Morris County are quite unique. The thing about Crestmont is that the overall pacing of the holes is a bit better -- in terms of diversity -- and you do get a much deeper array of shot values. However, for a course like Morris County to be just 6,300 yards from the tips you will get plenty of challenges during the round. I marvel at how such a stellar layout holds up even with all the improvements to clubs and balls.

Crestmont has a few putting surfaces that cannot be played when the Stimp reading reaches 10 or more (e.g. the 11th & 14th as Bob mentioned previously). The pitch is so severe that you simply get the same outcomes that Payne Stewart / Tom Lehman endured with the 18th hole at Olympic Lake during the '98 US Open. I also see the two concluding par-5's at Crestmont to be a redundant element. The 9th is the better of the two and frankly I would think playing the 18th from a tee box just ahead of the tips would make for a superb long par-4 closer.

Like I said before -- if someone were to simply come to West Orange, NJ you would be in for a mega golf trest simply from the layouts that are located in that town.

[corey miller]

Matt Ward

You really need to get over to Rock Spring.  The renovation work is complete.  Ken Dye work.  Interesting contrast between Hanse/Bahto/membership interpretation of Banks at ECCC and the Dye/Pavelec/membership interpretation of Banks at Rock Spring.

Being that the clubs are so close together in might be an interesting piece for New Jersey Golfer.

[Matt_Ward]

Corey:

Many thanks for the heads-up -- I'm certainly interested. Rock Spring made a smart move in doing such work as other clubs in the Garden State have found.

Having such an inclusion sometime in '06 in Jersey Golfer should make for some interesting angles given the interpretation each group used.