Kauai course changes: Princeville, Kiele

[Don Dinkmeyer]

Fortunate to be on Kauai and find some impending changes:

Princeville will close, the greens will be redone, the course will be "softened" so it is easier to play, and then reopened as a private club. As far as I can decipher from a press release and then local knowledge.

Kiele (Marriott Lagoons, a Nicklaus) will shift the 14-15 holes to make way for some timeshare/hotel sites. Renovating the magnificent viewing area at Brewers Pub overlooking par 3 13th. Not sure if this is an improvment, but its happening.

BC golf management is working with the Marriott and seems to have improved their quality of experience. New carts have advanced GPS -- i've never seen "warning distances" showing a cart ahead of you, eg, 246 in red w/a cart symbol on the display...so can i hit without hitting into them? Now you know...

[Tom_Doak]

Don:

I played The Kiele Course about 15 years ago and hate to admit that I cannot remember the hole numbers well.

I do remember that #16 is the short par 4 along the water's edge, but which was the par-3 along the ocean?  Was that 13 or 14 or 15?  In other words, are they pulling holes off the ocean for residential use, a la Eldorado in Cabo?  That would be a disturbing trend.

[Keith Durrant]

Here's the Kiele routing - 13th and 16th are the ocean holes.



14 routes back inland and then 15th routes back to the ocean. If I remember rightly 15 is a great scenic sweeping par 5 with the ocean as backdrop?

The location of the Brewers Pub is excellent, with an all-world view. When i was there it was oddly very quiet. It needed something to make the place a success.

[Dave Bourgeois]

I played the Kiele in 2001, and only remember a few holes well, but I'm glad they are not messing with 13 (I remember that one).  

[ed_getka]

Too bad about Princeville going private, I enjoyed the Prince course years ago when I played it. I wonder why the private move, not enough rounds being played?

[Tom_Doak]

Keith:

Thanks for posting the map.

Now that I see it, I realize why I couldn't remember how the holes followed sequence.  On many modern courses such as this, the connections between holes are really awkward -- so you can remember the 13th green, but not visualize at all where is the next hole from there.

Ed:

The privatizing of some resort or public courses is a trend, following on after "residence clubs" and "condo hotels" starting to take over for old-style resort operations.  In Hawaii, it's a way to free up capital for further development, a way to encourage people to buy property instead of just paying by the day, and ultimately a way to make the regulars at Princeville play a bigger role in supporting the course financially.  However, it will be interesting to see if they go for it, or rebel against it, considering there will be other resort-operated courses still available to them.

[Don Dinkmeyer]

Don:

I played The Kiele Course about 15 years ago and hate to admit that I cannot remember the hole numbers well.

I do remember that #16 is the short par 4 along the water's edge, but which was the par-3 along the ocean?  Was that 13 or 14 or 15?  In other words, are they pulling holes off the ocean for residential use, a la Eldorado in Cabo?  That would be a disturbing trend.

Tom--
Thanks too, Keith, for that map. 13 is world class, 14 is generic, 15 is a ton of land just waiting to be converted - unfortunately. There is a huge area sea-side of 15 which is also waiting to be developed. Two failed commerce sites - a mall/restaurant and restaurant -- are at either end of current 13 and 15.

I dont know exactly how the conversion is proposed. I do know 15 is supposed to become a par 3 with the current 15 green. I just went back there, I see how it can be done, but it gives two over-water 3's in quick succession (13, 15).

Then we can discuss whether the short par 4 16 (the signature, I believe) is a good risk-reward or a tricked up pony...  

But its ALL good in January, on Kauai...  

[ed_getka]

Ah, yes a residence club. I should have thought of that. That certainly seems to be the coming thing.

[Sean Leary]

Princeville will be interesting. With that severe of a site, I wonder how much they can soften it.  I was at Princeville twice last year during peak times and the Prince was basically empty bothe times.  People seem to play it only once.  I think it just might be too difficult for the resort golfer to enjoy.......

[Evan_Green]

That is rather shocking news re: Princeville

When is Princeville supposed to go private??

[Jerry Kluger]

I played Princeville this past summer and I came away with the feeling that technology was getting the better of it and they needed to make some changes.  I can't cite specific holes but I remember that you were often wondering whether you could hit driver and this included some par 5s. The pace of play was very slow and I think it is because there are so many blind shots.  I think if you played a few times you could get a much better feel for the course.

[Paul Payne]

I'm not that surprised about Princeville. It is owned by Starwood and I assume they want to push the cache of owning one of their vacation timeshares. Most of the resort is made up of TS condos.

I played there a few times but never liked it as well as Kiele or Poipu. It wasn't an issue of scoring, I just thought the holes felt very much the same over and over again. Long downhill, undulating fairway, ocean off in the distance, slightly elevated bunkered green.....

I know the area around Kiele was devestated back around 1990 by a hurricane (typhoon?) and has never really recovered. It was originally a Westin property and very opulent, catering to wealthy Japanese tourists. That is where the fancy tee markers came from and I have to say some of the fanciest tee markers I have ever seen.  

The pub on 13 has changed hands many times and has never caught on despite the outstanding views. I think part of the problem is that it is set off so far from the rest of the resort. Maybe that is why they want to pull development in closer. It is not just the pub but there is an abandonded restaurant by the corner of 16 with one of the best locations on the island, along with vacant shopping etc. up on the ridge.

I did kind of like #16 although it is a bit quirky. A long drive hugging the left (but not too close) will hit the gap at the ridge and roll almost to the front of the green. Not the recommended play but very cool when you pull it off.

I hope the integrity of Kiele stays in tact, it is probably my favotrite course on the island.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

I always enjoyed the Prince and Kiele.

To Jerry's point about playing it a few times, I agree. I used to play it lots and once you know how to play it, I never lost that many balls. The wind is the only variable that makes it brutal for everyone and I know they used to moan about having forced carries for the ladies.

I hope it is successful in transition, it is a beautiful spot.

As for the 16th at Kiele, I really like it. The reward of hitting the green is certainly worth going for it, because it does have the funnel effect into the playing surface.

[PjW]

A further note on Kauai; DMB (Scottsdale: Silverleaf, Verado) and AB Hawaii should be starting construction on a Weiskopf design course in the third quarter of this year.  The Kukui`ula Project will be private golf community with up to 1500 units in Poipu.

 
Phil Wycoff

[Russell Lo]

I believe the management is in discussion to reroute a couple of holes at Kiele to take advantage of the proximity to Nawiliwili Harbor. The 14th is a ho-hum hole retreating back from the harbor after the spectacular 13th. The 15th takes you back down to the harbor but doesn't have the exciting green like the 12th.I think they plan to keep the 13th and somehow re-route the 14th to keep play along the ocean.  

The pub that is mentioned is probably going to be turned into a spa and restaurant which for the resort is the best use of the facilities. When it was originally built it was filled with high end shops as the Japanese Bubble was at full expansion.

The sister course, Mokihana is a ho-hum course that they are probably going to do a lot of renovation on. I hope they talk to Tom D. about seeing what he can do with the Kiele course.

[Evan_Green]

Just wanted to bump this one more time:

Has anyone else heard that Princeville is going private? If so, when?

[cary lichtenstein]

I called there and neither thier reservation desk nor their pro shop claim they know anything about this

[Don Dinkmeyer]

As i started this thread i want to thank posters for chiming in.

Kiele is my favorite on the island and I did not know about the private course to be built over in Poipu area.

The original Princeville info came from a golf magazine (World or Week), its not with me but was recent. The Kiele info, sketchy as it is, was confirmed by Kenneth Nakamura, GenMgr of the courses. I think it is a matter of zoning/approvals as was stated in this thread.