GCA magazine - Sand GC

[Jari Rasinkangas]

Has anyone noticed the picture of new SandGC in new issue of Golf Architecture Magazine on page 16?  The course is being built in Sweden and it is designed by Arhur Hills/Steve Forest.

Don't know much about their courses but the picture of SandGC shows something horrible.  It is the most unnatural work I have ever seen and it will be the nightmare of the superintendent.

They turned flat farm fields into some kind of Whistling Straits copy.  And the reason is that the shaper Brian Smith has been actually shaping Whistling Straits.

Steve Forrest says in the article the following:

"I'll give Brian a good measure of the credit for the scale of these features.  I tried to get as much as I could on the grading plan, but what eventuated is, to a certain extent, Brian's interpretation of those plans.  Once we saw what he was capable of, we ran with it.  There's probably a factor of two or three on the mounds, based over and above what was shown on the grading plan.  This course had to be built rather than planned."

Seems like the shaping got out of their hands.  What kind of planning/shaping is it if you can allow factor of two or three in mounding?  Sounds more like having someones design turned to another designers style by the shaper.

And what is the cost of that huge movement of dirt?

The club has a website.  You can see some pics here:
http://www.sandgolfclub.se/nav7072

Jari

[ForkaB]

Jari

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that Whistling Striats was a relatively flat siktre too (old Naval airbase?) and required huge amounts of dirt moving/shaping too.

[Marc Haring]

I quite like the look of some of it actually, but I see what you mean about the maintenance problems. Talk about flashed up faces and in an area of presumably high rainfall it could be a real headache for someone. Is it a sandy soil underneath? If not they’re going to have to charge some big money to make it pay.

As for this 2:an hole, what were they on when they came up with that bunker? Must have been some sort of Mount Fuji hallucinatory gear or something!

[Jari Rasinkangas]

Rich,

Yes, you are right.  But in Whistling Straits Pete Dye lived on the site through the whole project and supervised all shaping by hand waving on site.  Not very many plans were made for shaping.

On this project design was first done on paper and then the shaper started to build something totally different.

After reading the article it looks like the layout was designed by Arthur Hills/Steve Forrest but then the shaper copied Pete Dye style over it.

Who should then get the credit for the design?  Why do the grading plans if the outcome is totally different?

Jari

[Jari Rasinkangas]

Marc,

Yes, some shapes are nice, but the overall idea to drop extremely contoured "links style" course in the middle of flat fields is totally unnatural and wierd looking.

According to the article the site is sandy so all material is propably got from the site.

No minimalistic here.  

Jari

[James Edwards]

That is the most ridiculous bunker Ive ever seen!

[wsmorrison]

Simply aweful.  I know photographs may be limiting but that looks like the developers paid a lot more than they had to for a golf course.  A natural site looks bastardized and the architecture forced on the land and the land resisted...but in the end to no avail. Jari captures my feelings saying it is totally unnatural and weird.  

[Brian Phillips]

Who should then get the credit for the design?  Why do the grading plans if the outcome is totally different?

So that they can charge for something...?

I visited the site a month ago....and...well...I have....nothing to say....

I have about 5 pictures of a few holes and anyone who would like copies can e-mail me.

[Kirk Gill]

That mountainous bunker is...........ridiculous. Truly.

Moving dirt doesn't seem to be the issue. It's a matter of scale, and taste.

[Evan Fleisher]

That is the most ridiculous bunker Ive ever seen!

All I can think of when I see that "thing" is Close Encounters Of The 3rd Kind...I'll be making one of those with my mashed potatoes tonight!!!

[Craig Disher]

Take an sound idea and push it until it becomes a ridiculous characiture. I thought the intent behind naturalism was to give some measure of deference to the site.

In case anyone didn't go to the website, here's another example, not as extreme but just as pointless on what otherwise seems to be a very nice site. It will be interesting to see what happens at this course over the next 2-3 years.

[T_MacWood]

There was/is a similar volcano bunker at Hollywood...a bit smaller in scale. I'm not sure I'd judge this course to be a total failure based upon these few photos...I'm not crazy about some of what I see, but on the other hand I do see a glimmer of potential for interesting golf.

[Tyler Kearns]

Tom,

Walter Travis' "Volcano" bunkers at Hollywood were the first thing that came to mind when I say these pictures. However, after taking a look at his work in the "Courses by Country" section of GCA, I'd say they took Travis' bold and unique concept and created a monstrosity. Travis' volcano bunker(s) sat within a larger complex of bunkers, and did not stand alone as does the work at Sand GC. The scale reminds me of St. Enodoc 6th hole, however, that bunker was built/eroded into a natural hill, therefore it is relavent to the context in which it exists. The Sand GC bunker definitely does not.

TK

[Mike_Cirba]

I don't object to what they are trying to do to a flat farm field.  Twisted Dune in NJ spring to mind as a course where massive earthmoving took place to create faux dunes and it's done so completely that it enhances the experience.  The shaping is much more tied together than what we see in these pictures, and I think that it's frankly done better at TD than at Whistling Straits, as well.

However, when trying to recreate Mother Nature where she doesn't naturally exist, as the line in the new Paul McCartney song goes, "there's a fine line between chaos and creation."  

[Joe Hancock]

Who should then get the credit for the design?  Why do the grading plans if the outcome is totally different?

Jari

Here's how that argument would go:

Architect: "You take the credit!"

Shaper: "No, you take it!"

Archie: "No, you...."

and so on......

Joe

[Tom_Doak]

Jari:  I had the same reaction to those pictures that you did.

I've only seen pictures of the Irish course at Whistling Straits, but these remind me of an even stronger version of it ... and if anyone but Pete Dye had designed the Irish course, I think it would be their last course.

[Mike_Cirba]

ROTFL, seriously.Mt Fuji for god's sake!

It sort of reminds me of ShoreGate in south Jersey more than Twisted Dune, Mike.

p.s. answer yer effin' phone, MC!

Bill,

ShoreGate is a VERY appropo analogy.  Of course, we know what an architectural abomination that is.  Back in early Biblical times, God would have turned the architect and shaper into a pillar of salt for that one.  

As far as my phone....it's been a killer week my friend.  I bought and moved into a new house last Friday, stuff is in storage, and a project we've been working on at work for the past 6 months went live this past weekend.  I've been in the office for 70+ hours since Saturday and we're through the woods finally.

Let's play golf somewhere next week.

[Andy Hughes]

The scale reminds me of St. Enodoc 6th hole, however, that bunker was built/eroded into a natural hill, therefore it is relavent to the context in which it exists. The Sand GC bunker definitely does not.

I do understand the point being made, and don't entirely disagree with it, but if the 6th at St Enodoc is a hoot to play, and the gaping bunker there is a challenge/heroic/etc, then why is it less so elsewhere if the a similar thing is created? If it's a thrill to fly one over the hill, the it should be a thrill to fly one over the hill.  It just seems that it is awfully hard to condemn a course based on a photo taken as the course is being built.
Also, perhaps that bunker atop the hill will erode nicely over time and earn the GCA thumbs-up?

[RJ_Daley]

This really makes me wonder about the process and nature of conversations between archies and prospective shapers.

Mike Cirba, what a great line you quote!

"there's a fine line between chaos and creation."

There isn't even a question that Brian Smith went nuts on the vulcanos we see in these photos and the ones that I presume he shaped on the right side of #4, and the cop or sentinal bunker guarding #17 at WS.  I can just imagine him telling Hills and Forest that he did Whistling, and perhaps was held back by Dye, and to just "trust" him and let him go.  That he could exceed Whistling STraits.

Tom Doak, while the Irish is in most places even more extreme than Whistling, it still wouldn't be exactly a "career ender".  There is some pretty good golf out there.  I'd have to say it is much better than the course formerly known as Ocean Trails, by the Dyes...

[Tyler Kearns]

I do understand the point being made, and don't entirely disagree with it, but if the 6th at St Enodoc is a hoot to play, and the gaping bunker there is a challenge/heroic/etc, then why is it less so elsewhere if the a similar thing is created? If it's a thrill to fly one over the hill, the it should be a thrill to fly one over the hill.  It just seems that it is awfully hard to condemn a course based on a photo taken as the course is being built.
Also, perhaps that bunker atop the hill will erode nicely over time and earn the GCA thumbs-up?

In my opinion, a talented architect does his best to conceal his hand in the design of a golf course. That is obviously more easily achieved on sites more condusive to golf, however, if we consider Sand GC (well, this picture of the course) versus Whistling Straits, although far from perfect, Dye did a much more convincing job.

In regards to my reference to St. Enodoc, the gaping bunker sits in a natural location for a bunker, the upslope of a hill, meaning no major earthwork required and the work can more easily be tied into the existing contours, hence, concealing the architects hand. The huge volcano bunker at Sand GC is situated on flattish land, and rather than being thrilled with carrying it, I'de be more apt to laugh at its freakish qualities. The concept for the bunker, as it relates to strategy might be ideal, however, the realization in sadly overdone.

TK

[SPDB]

Like Tom MacWood, the first thing that occurred to me was Travis's volcano bunker at Hollywood (albeit taken to its absurd conclusion), thus proving once again that brilliant minds think alike.



Should similar criticisms be heaped on the Old Man?

[Tyler Kearns]

Should similar criticisms be heaped on the Old Man?

SPDB,

I'll admit Travis' "Volcano" bunkers are not my cup of tea, and they do look a little contrived. However, the criticism should be comensurate to the level of absurdity in the design, and by comparison the Swedish project work is simply much worse. Travis "volcano" bunker is better by virtual of its scale, and by its relationship to the surrounding features. It sticks out, but not like a "SORE THUMB".

TK

[paul cowley]

One of the most interesting things about working on the Barefoot resort during construction was that, as all four courses were being built at the same time [Love, Norman, Fazio and Dye] it was very easy to wander over to see what the others were up to......I lived part of the time in an RV on our site so towards dark I spent alot of time on a ATV with libation in tow....I was amazed at how low profile the Norman course was and how often it would get re-worked.....Fazio was a very interesting work in progress, especially since it was easy to follow and contrast the new work with the existing site [probably the best along with Normans].....but the daily surprise had to be Mr Dyes course.
Until then I had never considered shaping an entire course with just a trackhoe but it was obvious that it could be done.
I enquired about the shaping technique and was told the crew was recently working on one of the Strait courses in Michigan and they were doing something similar. It was there I saw my first volcano bunker and I would chuckle about the Dr Suess like landscape especially as the shadows lengthened and the libation load lightened...one could get into serious trouble night riding amongst the earth forms!

but then a new day would always dawn and I could go back to puting Davis Love's career in 'ruins'.

.....I think one might want to credit Hills, Forest and Dye[and Co] with this one.....