[Patrick_Mucci]

After playing Yale again I was impressed by the size, variety and playing characteristics of the greens, from an approach and putting perspective.

The 8th green is a prime example.

It contains a false front, turbo boost, ridge and tiers, and tremendous variety in the hole locations that present extremely challenging approaches

This theme is repeated at Yale, with similar results.

Do large greens inherently possess the ability to be more varied and more challenging for the approach, recovery and putting ?

The 3rd, 6th, 7th, 11th and 15th at NGLA seem to offer similar variety and challenge.

[Kyle Harris]

Depending on the individual design, yes, large greens are inherently able to offer more options to the golfer.

However, there are many a large flat green (our local muni is an example) that have little options or angles of play in them.

Furthermore, large greens offer more oppurtunity to be "over-designed" or be a trifle too much.

[Mark_F]

Patrick,

I think small greens beat large greens hands down, especially when they are surrounded  by mown areas that allow you to work your approach shot into proper positions, and offer you heaps of options when you miss.  

And if you miss one in a bunker, you have a lot less room to work with - moe often, your next shot may be another chip or pitch, as opposed to another putt.

I don't seen how large greens could be more challenging for the approach - only putting.

But wouldn't 18 such greens as you describe be too over the top?  Surely it would be much harder to maintain interest in 18 large greens, than 18 smaller ones?

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

It may be interesting to note that the definition of "putting green" in the USGA/R&A Rules of Golf up until the 1950s only included that area within 20 yards of the hole (excluding hazards). It was not until 1956 that the present Rule's definition ("that area specifically prepared for putting") was written into the Rules of Golf and the 20 yard rule ceased to exist.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Patrick,

  Good question.  I would say yes.  
I haven't played Yale, your example, but one that readily comes to mind is Hidden Creek.  

The greens there are much larger as a whole than on the courses I play on a regular basis (Bethpage).  

Most of the greens there offered several options of getting the ball on the green, and also made putting quite a challenge-especially when one was in the wrong portion of the green.  

A specific example I will cite is #5.  While I had a 9-iron in that day, it proved to be the wrong choice as it put me at the back of the green, and I was faced with a much longer putt to a front hole location.  

The smaller greens I usually play on, as a whole, are usually much easier to putt--less distance for the putt to travel.  There, I found even being on the putting surface was not good enough--you must be in the proper location in order to have a good chance.  

Same with recoveries--missing the gren in certain spots offers a much longer recovery, be it a chip, pitch, or flopper to try to get the ball close.  

If  I had known the character of the front of the green, I would have played a pitching or even a gap wedge, knowing that the contours would feed the ball forward, and even if I was a little short on the approach.  

[Tom_Doak]

Usually, yes, you can do more creative things with a larger area, although a large flat green doesn't offer more options.  There will certainly be more three-putt opportunities, too.

But larger doesn't automatically mean better.  Crystal Downs has some of the most complicated greens I've ever seen, and only one or two of them are over 6000 square feet.

The Old Course at St. Andrews is the poster child for the large green aficionado.  Where do you think Macdonald got the idea?

[Scott Witter]

I think much depends on your considerations from the approach as you think about the possibilities to a small green with perhaps fewer, but more straight forward options of play versus a larger green with assorted options surrounding the putting surface.  So is it the choices golfers consider from the approach, or the choices they have on the green surface?

In a recent thread we have discussed the lack of strategic recognition by the majority of golfers.  So, does it follow in this thread...who "really" thinks about their options standing in the approach when hitting to a small green with interesting contour protected by bunkers, and rough close to the surface, or a large green with shaved slopes, strategic/creative pinning area bunkers, no back drop, interesting internal contour, collection areas, chipping areas, and so on?

As Tom notes, a big green doesn't mean an interesting or a better green or one that actually has any "real" options for play.  Often they are just big and yes they still create many three putts.  Much depends on many other factors which have led the player to the green and whether or not their game has options offered to them.

Honestly, do most golfers really know what to do with the options if they are there?  Hell, they are usually happy to hit the green and stay on for a couple of putts, they'll worry about the "options" if they miss the green and for as many times as they do miss the green, you would think they would consider more of the options before they hit their approach shot!

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Pat, the answer is yes, but naturally that does not mean all or even most large green take advantage of the oppotunity to show their potential. One thing small green have is create nervousness of missing the green and having tough up and downs.. Even the most target golf green does not create that feeeling a really small green does.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark Ferguson,

The 8th at Yale has all you mention and more.

The location of the hole dramatically changes the options and strategies on the hole.

And, should you miss your approach in a bunker, your work and options remain ahead of you.

Likewise, the 2nd green, especially before the mound was removed has great variety and options.

If someone could post several photos of the 8th green you would see the incredible variety in the hole locations and their impact on the options and play of the hole.

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