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Jonathan McCord

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The Architects Golf Club
« on: August 16, 2005, 09:33:37 PM »
    I'm sure this course has been discussed on here before but I played it last Friday and thought it would make for some interesting discussion.

     The course was in OK shape with several bare spots scattered about but the greens were rolling nicely.  Being somewhat educated in golf course design I tried to look at the individual merits of each hole and came to these conclusions.

     Some of my favorites: Hole 2 C.B. MacDonald, Hole 5 Walter Travis, Hole 10 George Thomas Jr, Hole 11 William Flynn and Hole 12 Charles Banks.  These holes seemed to be well designed and "appeared" to be pretty close to how I envisioned the architects style above.

     Holes I question:  Hole 1 Old Tom Morris, Hole 9 Donald Ross, Hole 13 Alister Mackenzie :o and Hole 14 Perry Maxwell.

                      AGREE or DISAGREE with above?

     I assume others have played the course, what are your thoughts on what Ron Whitten and Stephan Kay did at The Architects Golf Club.
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re:The Architects Golf Club
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2005, 10:54:10 PM »
I like the Maxwell and MacKenzie holes. Agree with you otherwise. The course has nice flow to it notwithstanding the different styles.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
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Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Kyle Harris

Re:The Architects Golf Club
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2005, 01:28:17 AM »
John,

Good topic and a near-great course. Personally, I prefer the first Ross hole (9) to the second one (15). I feel the green is the best on the course, and the approach shot places the type of premium on the long-mid iron that Ross tended to favor. That green motivated me to coin the phrase that "every green has a back door to let yourself in."

I especially like the 3rd as well, and surprised you didn't mention it. Considering Wilson's comparably small list of contributions to architecture, I felt that hole captured a Wilson-esque Par 5 as best as anyone could.

The first par 4 on the course, the fourth is another great hole patterned after Dev Emmet. Good to see him get his due.

The Tillie Hole may be the best adaptation. You can take that hole and put it anywhere on Bethpage Black and it would fit. Same with Philly Cricket or Baltusrol.

10-11 I had mixed feelings on. Both seem to be exactly contradictory to the strategies employed by Thomas and Flynn. The tenth forces you to aim at the bunker, leaving it well short or try to carry it to aim at the green, whereas Thomas would have offset the green such that making the hole longer by aiming away from it would give you an optimum angle, but challenging the bunker for the long hitter would give a shorter shot.

The Flynn hole makes you cut the corner to gain a shorter shot to the green, which is reachable in two. The bunkering seems forced at best, especially for Flynn. Also, I question using a par five to represent Flynn. Flynn's significant battery of quality par 4s is his strong point, and the terrain on the course seemed to dictate that a bold routed, outside the dogleg, plays longer than the number Flynn Par 4 could have been built.

The Par 3s are the weakest part of the course, in attribution at least. Without their attributions, I would be fond of all, but the MacDonald, Banks and Colt/Alison holes don't capture what I feel those respective architects would have put there. A lot of criticism goes to the Colt/Alison hole, mainly for the attribution. I look at the par 3s (except the superlative 17th - Stanley Thompson) as Stephen Kay designs, and it makes the experience much more enjoyable, as they are great holes. The Banks "Redan" at 12, is a good par 3, but not a Redan, save for the bunkering.

The Dick Wilson hole (16) is a downright monster with a huge green. Not sure how I feel about it yet. And ironically, the RTJ, Sr. hole (18) is the easiest on the course. Drive down the middle, wedge to the green, one putt birder both times I played it. And the pinched landing area bunkering doesn't seem too punitive either. Maybe that was a light architectural jab at RTJ, Sr? He was still alive at the time of design and construction, and passed away shortly before the opening.

As for the Travis hole, I loved it. The Maxwell hole I am still out on, as well as the Mackenzie hole, which is a bit contrived.

Glad you brought this course up Jon. Next time you're in the Jersey/Philly area, let me know.

Mike_Sweeney

Re:The Architects Golf Club
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2005, 06:07:59 AM »
I don't think I would send Tom MacWood there, but I would definitely send Huck there.  :)

Hint: It is a very fun course to play and see some different styles , but not necessarily a must see for the serious student. I don't remember the individual holes too well, as I played the first season or so.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2005, 06:14:08 AM by Mike Sweeney »

Dan Herrmann

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Re:The Architects Golf Club
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2005, 10:52:33 AM »
I'd say it's a better course than at least 90% of the other daily fee courses I've played.