Is Lakota Canyon a top 10 golf course?

[Matt_Ward]

Tom:

Fair point.

But, I think the anti-Engh forces need to see how Jim has progressed from the over-the-top introductions he applied to Sanctuary and now to Lakota and Pradera. There has been a major step in the positive IMHO.

No doubt -- personal preferences are at work and I have to say again I thoroughly enjoyed The Rawls Course because clearly you needed to bring that property to life.

Tom, it simply boils down to people playing a fair representation of what an architect designs before extrapolating some grand theory on the shortcomings or positives that person possess. Too often the mullahs who rule on GCA view any dissent or promotion of others as infatels raising a fuss when they believe there is only one "true path to paradise."

[fred ruttenberg]

Cary:
That in itself does not make St. Andrews a bad course just as the 18th at Cyprus does not make it a bad course. However, IMHO St. Andrews ,outside of its historic value, is not a great course. It certainly has not held up in resistence to scoring(even Jack shot 72,75). Outside of 17,its holes are hardly memorable. The reason we all want to play it is just that it is St. Andrews,the town is so fascinating, and Kingsbarnes is nearby for great golf.

[Jim Franklin]

The reason you want to play St Andrews is the course can play differently everytime you play it. That, to me, makes a course fun. The history is nice too, but the variety of ways to play each hole are its crowning achievement.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Cary:
That in itself does not make St. Andrews a bad course just as the 18th at Cyprus does not make it a bad course. However, IMHO St. Andrews ,outside of its historic value, is not a great course. It certainly has not held up in resistence to scoring(even Jack shot 72,75). Outside of 17,its holes are hardly memorable. The reason we all want to play it is just that it is St. Andrews,the town is so fascinating, and Kingsbarnes is nearby for great golf.

This maybe the runaway candidate for most ignorant post of the year. Your Golf Digest Panelist card is in the mail.

Congratulations!

Jim Franklin, as succinctly put as possible. Nice job....

[Jim Franklin]

Hey, I am a GD guy too .

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Opps! Sorry!

I just can't believe that statement Fred makes. Just can't believe it. Especially the resistence to scoring part. As if that should ever be a factor at the GREATEST course of them all!

[cary lichtenstein]

Tommy:

To know Fred is to love him...This thread has a life of it's own

Cary

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Cary,
Therfore he deserves a break, and I'm going to give it to him by withdrawing it from for consdieration for the end of the year Golf Club Atlas awards!

When are you getting the hell out of Colorado and coming to California?

[cary lichtenstein]

Tommy:

Under no circumstances do you withdraw him from the end of the year awards.  Fred is great materail. Are these similiar to the Darwin Awards?

California, hmmm...good question...our daughter visited us in Aspen last week and we see her again Thanksgiving. So probably Jan or Feb in California

Cary

[Jack_Marr]

I am very pleased Jim Engh will be doing Carne. He has an affinity with the place - joining the golf club before he was ever to design holes there.

He seems to have built his name without originally being fameous, so there is something about his work that people like. It's his job to build courses that people like, and he's been a big success.