article on Sand Hills, Dismal River, Prairie Club...

[Tony_Chapman]

Ahhhh, but see it's still remote!! I haven't seen her since 1996.   I will be going back for the first time in about a month and can't wait to see if things have changed.

Not to jack this thread, but it would certainly be very neat if someone could develop something of a resort/working ranch/spa type of atmostphere in these parts and see if it worked. Personally, I think it could work. There are plenty of ranchers right now who have people come from all walks of life to just to live on the ranch for a weekend. You could do the same thing in this area, but add a golf course. It certainly has possibilities.

Or, maybe we could build The Carthage Club in the Sand Hills.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I saw a statistic a couple of months ago that there are something like 200,000 people in America who reported income of over $5 million last year ... and I would be willing to bet that more than the normal 10% of them play golf.  So, there is some money out there.

Money's not the impediment, travel and time are.[/color]

All these other clubs are being developed because there is the feeling that if Sand Hills had 1,000 more memberships available, they could sell them for $50K each.  I'm not sure if that is an unreasonable assumption or not, but it does assume the courses in question will be on the same level as Sand Hills, which is hard to guarantee.  [They have the potential to be that good, but they've still got to do it.]

Again, it's not the money that's the impediment.

I loved Sand Hills and Wild Horse.
Would I like to play them again next week ?   Absolutely.
But, the reality is, it's an excursion, not a simple diversion.
It takes me all day to get there, and all day to get home.
That's two days of just traveling.

So, the question is:  Is anyone willing to spend the money understanding that their use of the facility/ies is extremely limited ?

And, are there more viable or palatable options for their golfing dollars ?

I don't think the competition is in Nebraska or Colorado, but, in Bandon, Kohler, Pebble Beach and other golf destinations, including secondary clubs.

For example, Is it more palatable for a golfer living in Connecticut or Washington D.C to join Hidden Creek as an additional club, or one of the courses mentioned in the subject title ?

It may be that there's enough discretionary golfing dollars for everyone, but, I still see the market as regionally driven, unless, there's an elaborate package that includes hotel, spa, etc., etc.. [/color]

The brave talk about the area becoming a golf destination is just posturing to get a newspaper article written, because the paper isn't going to report on a single high-dollar private venture.  Sand Hills really isn't competition for the other courses being built out there, because their membership is full ... but the others are certainly competing with each other for the same pool of potential members, and if they say they're happy that others are building competition, they're either lying or at a minimum, supremely overconfident.

I'd agree 100 %.
Unless, the clubs were designed for different markets.
Public, Resort, Housing Community and Private.

Viewing the land on the drive from North Platte to Sand Hills I couldn't help but think that there was an infinite number of great golf courses that the land could produce, but, that wasn't the problem,  getting members to join and utilize them is what I saw as the dilema.[/color]

The Sand Hills area COULD become a golf destination in time, but only if someone has the guts to build some public courses there and find out the hard way.  It may yet happen; I know a couple of people who are considering it.

Given the limited season, that's a tough order to fill.
GUTS = MONEY
The return on investment has to be highly questionable and quite unattractive to potential investors.

I think it takes men with a vision, who don't mind investing in their dream, irrespective of the cost to bring it to fruition.

How many Dick Youngscap's are there ?

Good luck to you and everyone else involved in these projects.   I'm confident the golf courses will be terrific.[/color]

[Dan Kelly]

Or, maybe we could build The Carthage Club in the Sand Hills.

If "we" build it, we will come.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Can you imagine the pure insanity that would take place if Carthage Club ever gets built?   The poor architect would have 1507 armchair architects look over every move, with daily updates posted to GCA and endless discussions on minute details.

Where do I sign up?  

[Doug Siebert]

David,

I don't know what the initiation fees are in those cities.  But that's not the point.  Where in those cities is there land as good as the sand hills for golf the way it was meant to be played?  For a certain type of golfer they'd probably rather plunk down $50K for a membership at Sand Hills, or since its full one of the other places going up nearby, than plunk down $50K for a second membership in Bellerive or Chicago Golf Club across town.  Its not only a different type of golf, its a whole different atmosphere where the golf is the only thing that matters, not club bylaws or belonging to keep up with the Joneses down the street.

I'm not a member of any club, but if I was presented with the opportunity to join Sand Hills, I would write the check tomorrow, and I've never actually been lucky enough to play it yet (I'm just relying on the word of a few friends who have been there and the GCA consensus...and wonderful pictures that have been posted)  I might only play it a few times a year, but the initiation fee is only once, and membership lasts a lifetime.  A place like that where golf is foremost is much more attractive to me than some stodgy club that requires a jacket and tie in the clubhouse or some gee-whiz Fazio project with a $10 mil clubhouse.  Of course, I could take that same $50K and spend $5K on a membership at some club in the UK or Ireland, and invest the remaining $45K to use for airfare for the rest of the my life, so I do have options

[David_Tepper]

Doug -

Well, it was the point the point I was trying to make!  Suppose you are a 45-year old guy, married with 2 kids. You are a partner at one of the 2 or 3 big-time law firms in the city where you live, making $250k a year. You joined one of the best country clubs (good classic golf course, where your wife can play tennis and the kids can swim) in that city and paid a $25k initiation fee. You feel fortunate if you can get in one round of golf a week.

Is this person likely fork over $50k to join a golf club that requires a day's drive to get to and where he will probably play no more than 8 or 10 rounds a year? How many of these people are there who might answer "yes" to that question? Enough to make these new sand hills clubs viable? That is what I am asking.

Remember, this person could fly out to Bandon once or twice as year for a pay-as-you-go "pure golf" experience.    

Believe me, I appreciate your enthusiasm and aesthetic sense for the "pure golf" experience.

Personally, I went with Plan B, as you described. I am the guy who lives in San Francisco and bought a 2nd home in Dornoch. For $5k, I could join RDGC, Tain, Brora, Golspie AND Nairn and my annual dues combined will still probably be way less than they are at Sand Hills or will be at one of the new Nebraska courses.

I hope these ventures all succeed. I think it would be good for the game. But, as F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote, it is more clear to me than ever that "the rich are different from you and me." For starters, they fly in private jets!

DT

[RJ_Daley]

A very interesting expression of personal inclinations and preferences.  The big world of golf theory in operation.  

The bottom line is whether all those clubs will survive long term or not.  I can only guess, but as I said above, I think that after they settle in, mature in natural progression of membership/developer relationship factors, there will be a certain pooling/merging of common interests.  Perhaps even a friendly or hostile takeover.  Any volunteers to be a white knight?

[rgkeller]

"Is this person likely fork over $50k to join a golf club that requires a day's drive to get to and where he will probably play no more than 8 or 10 rounds a year?"

Well, if he wants to be a rainmaker at his firm and get to seven figures in salary, I would think it might be a very worthwhile investment.

[David_Tepper]

rgkeller -

That is a very interesting angle to this discussion! It is certainly a line of logic my hypothetical 45-year old lawyer could use when trying to justify blowing $50k on joining a golf club that he will only visit 2 or 3 times a year to his wife.

I can hear the conversation now:

"But honey, which is more important, saving for the kids' college tuition or me joining this golf course in the middle of the middle of nowhere so I can impress the senior partners and our clients?"

Who do you think wins that discussion 9 times out of 10?

DT