[Alex_Wyatt]

I understand the next issue of GOLF will have their world and us rankings for 2005-6. Perhaps we can  have a civil discussion of what new courses should go in before the actual list comes out and a complete donnybrook develops? Will St. Andrews Beach and Barnbougle make it? Anything else in OZ? Will enough raters get to Friars for it to be ranked? Will Dallas National be as appealing to GM as it was to GD?

[TEPaul]

Alex:

I very much look forward to having a civil and well-mannered discussion on their rankings after prefacing my remarks with the dictum that all golf course magazine raters and rankings are totally full of bull-ticky and equine do-do. Whether or not they're all full of feline piss may remain to be seen, though.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

It's canine piss.

[Scott_Burroughs]

A civil discussion on rankings?   yeah, right.....


As for the worthiness of Briar's Creek and Torrey Pines, I haven't played them, but because so many here say that TP is way overrated, then I guess I do, too...

I like Yeamans Hall a lot, but I think that GM has it overrated.

[TEPaul]

MikeC:

Whatever, I really didn't mean to sell the raters and rankers short.

Did you hear that NGLA might go from 17th to 18th? I mean, honestly, where do these bands of duffuses come from anyway if they can't figure out that NGLA is totally a solid 17th??

[Mike_Cirba]

MikeC:

Whatever, I really didn't mean to sell the raters and rankers short.

Did you hear that NGLA might go from 17th to 18th? I mean, honestly, where do these bands of duffuses come from anyway if they can't figure out that NGLA is totally a solid 17th??

Oh no, Tom, I know you'd never have a negative thing to say about rankers.  

To go back to the question at hand, I've heard some pretty surprising rumors and I expect there to be some lively discussion here on 8/16.

[TEPaul]

"To go back to the question at hand, I've heard some pretty surprising rumors and I expect there to be some lively discussion here on 8/16.

Mike Cirba:

Do you think this means Misquamicutt is finally going to take its rightful place as the #1 course in the world? Well, it'd be about time. Maybe I will have something nice to say about raters and rankers after-all. I think the ambiance factor up there will go over well with the raters though. They have some great pickles up there. You can get pickle soup, pickle salad, pickle burgers (open face or on a pickle bun) even with pickle cheese if you ask nicely. And of course people have been known to fly across the country just to have a couple of hits of their 100 year old pickle scotch.

[Andrew Cunningham]

What's wrong with Dallas National?  I haven't played it but the pics look pretty intriguing.

I haven't met a lot of raters but considering Ran is one they can't all be bad???

[Mike_Cirba]

"Mike Cirba:

Do you think this means Misquamicutt is finally going to take its rightful place as the #1 course in the world? Well, it'd be about time.

Tom,

The members at Pine Valley (or Sand Hills?   ) might be a bit miffed.  

[TEPaul]

"Tom,

The members at Pine Valley (or Sand Hills?   ) might be a bit miffed."

I hope so. Maybe it will make them all work harder to create and maintain something unique. If they really use their imaginations maybe they too can have a couple of massive wash-board fairways.  

[Mike_Cirba]

or perhaps some rugged, natural-appearing, and wild, wooly bunkers again.  

[TEPaul]

"I haven't met a lot of raters but considering Ran is one they can't all be bad???"

Ran's a GM rater?? Well, no wonder, that'd explain why he's made the occasional totally off-the-wall architectural remark to me such as he can't understand why there're no bunkers or whatever on the massively wide and unencumbered 15th fairway in the drive zone at Pacific Dunes. Or that he thinks the 16th fairway should be extended well left into a rough area that contains an electrical junction box under the rationale that area sets the golfer up right into the gut of the green. Apparently his GM rater's mentality does not allow him to understand the unique risk/reward strategic value Doak utilized by placing rough and an electrical junction box in that area. But if he hangs around me long enough he should learn.

[Alex_Wyatt]

Wow, Tom, you sure know how to dis a guy's thread! If you don't like this discussion, may I ask you to just decline to participate? Things will get a lot worse in the next couple of weeks, so perhaps you want to take a little vacation from GCA.com when the list comes out.  

I think Ran can teach us all a lot about how to look at a golf course. If he participates in this survey, it can't be all bad. Now Mike C, what are these rumors, pray tell?

[TEPaul]

"Wow, Tom, you sure know how to dis a guy's thread! If you don't like this discussion, may I ask you to just decline to participate? Things will get a lot worse in the next couple of weeks, so perhaps you want to take a little vacation from GCA.com when the list comes out."

Alex:

Yeah, sure, I'll be happy to decline to participate. Sorry I dissed your thread. On this website disrespect and attempts at humor seem to be pretty much one and the same thing, I guess.  

Did I mention that magazine raters and rankers are about as worthwhile as cockatoo diarrehia---I can't remember? Do you really think the discussion in a couple of weeks will be even worse than some really runny cockatoo diarrehia? If so, I'll be more than happy to take a vacation from the discussion, and please don't feel bad asking me to.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Alex,

I've heard generally that a lot of shakeup is coming.  

I've also heard that a newer course in NJ will make its debut.

That's all I can divulge.

[TEPaul]

If the #1 ranking in the world leaves NJ and goes back to that piece of crap in California the GM rankings will be ten times less worthwhile than even really runny cockatoo diarrehia, that's for sure.

[George Pazin]

Hard to imagine Barnbougle or St Andrews Beach got enough votes - we'll probably see them mentioned in the sidebar about courses that got a high enough score but not enough votes to include.

[Mike_Cirba]

If the #1 ranking in the world leaves NJ and goes back to that piece of crap in California the GM rankings will be ten times less worthwhile than even really runny cockatoo diarrehia, that's for sure.

Tom,

Get your ratings straight!  That bit of claptrap was from our friends at Golf Digest, not Golf Magazine.

Of course, the real ratings (i.e. Golfweek) will be coming again in March, as usual.  I seem to recall very few complaints about these.  

[Alex_Wyatt]

Trump, Ham Farm, Hidden Creek? Could it be anything else in NJ?

[Andrew Cunningham]

Mike,

I think your right that Golfweek's ratings do get less flack, but don't you think that's because they have two lists instead of one?  If GD or GM published their respective Top 200 (in the US) I'm fairly convinced that they would all list the same courses - not in the same order of course!

Andrew

[TEPaul]

Tom,
Get your ratings straight!  That bit of claptrap was from our friends at Golf Digest, not Golf Magazine.
Of course, the real ratings (i.e. Golfweek) will be coming again in March, as usual.  I seem to recall very few complaints about these."

Ah, cut the cockatoo caca Mike, they're all the same---Golf, Golf Digest, Golfweek, even the Doak Scale. What the hell is the Doak Scale about anyway---some ranking of the likelihood of whether you want to drive 100 miles to play a golf course? What kind of crap is that? 100 miles where? I could drive 100 miles in less than an hour in Nebraska but around New York it would take about a week and a half to drive 100 miles, that is if I didn't get robbed or injured of even killed en route!  

[Mike_Cirba]

Alex,

If I tell you my source was Karl Rove, can I plead confidentiality?

We'll all see in two weeks.  


Tom Paul,

You're just miffed because Fernandina Beach Municipal hasn't made any of the lists yet...I completely understand and empathize.

I've been saying for years that all that place needs to do is get one of the many Tommy Birdsongs restoration specialists in there and they'd crack the Top 40, with a bullet!

[TEPaul]

"Tom Paul,
You're just miffed because Fernandina Beach Municipal hasn't made any of the lists yet...I completely understand and empathize."

That's double crap, maybe even triple crap. I just floated that ruse for a few years about Fernandina Beach Municipal to see how many suckers I could get to fall for it. I hornswaggled a lot of them too. During the Super Bowl I even hoodwinked some of them to drive 100 Jacksonville miles (which during the Super Bowl is like about 500 Nebraska miles and about two full New York miles) to go up there and play it thinking it really was the world's greatest hidden gem.

Even Fernandina Beach Muni's architect Tommie Birdsong turned out to be worthless. I found out he worked under Ross's Philadelphia foreman J.B. McGovern at one time, and that right there has to relegate Birdsong to the dustbin of golf architectural history.

[Paul_Turner]

Has a links ever been top of the GM list?  TOC?

[Mike_Cirba]

Has a links ever been top of the GM list?  TOC?

Paul,

Yes, Muirfield...back around 1980 or so.

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