Bethpage 14th

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

The front extension was utilized today and this is absolutely an improvement.  There is a decent amount of severity in the front.  The grass is not up to normal Black standards yet, but should be next year--Craig can grow grass as well as anyone in the business--I've known him since he was a college intern at Piping Rock.  For the greater matter, I am saddened to hear that Craig gets the responsibility for back tier fiasco.  I asked several players  about their thoughts--the least critical response--"I guess this will spread the foot traffic" to "This is absolute b#@@*&%$!"  I did not hear one complimentary  comment on the hole.  There were also a bunch of incredulous comments about the new 9th tee and changes in the hole length measurements (actually happenened last  year--4 is now at 517 measured directley over the left corner of left fairway bunker--actually lasers at 537 over the 268 carry right finger of bunker).  Jeff,  since we were on opposite tee times, what do you think of the new back part of 14?

[jeffwarne]

Robert-I like small greens
that said I like the new green on 14(if you need to enlarge it for a course that does 27 million rounds annually)

If they keep the hole at a reasonable length those greens within greens in the back will provide an interesting shotmaking challenge
challenge when appropriate

I happen to think the USGA has their head up their ass and should roll back the ball but since they won't.....
i think the new tee on 9 will provide a similar challenge to the old tee with 1992 technology(when I first saw the Black)(if used sparingly-like only in US Opens)
Both my fellow competitors flew it on top both days(from the 418 tee)-it shouldn't be routine for TOUR players-the back tee will allow
many to attempt it,but a lot will fail-but stay tuned,by 2009 that tee will be obsolete too

the fairway bunkers looked a bit silly 25 yards from the fairways

I think I had 210+ into more greens than I've ever had
doesn't suit my game,but I do like the course and I can certainly respect the work that's gone into it
liked it better before the 2002 Open changes though-

for example,#4 was a much better,more strategic green before-now you can pitch it close from anywhere

[Phil_the_Author]

Jeff, you wrote, "for example,#4 was a much better,more strategic green before-now you can pitch it close from anywhere."

I am curious as to how the hole played differently before the renovation as there has been no change to the green area other than removing the tiny rear bunker and changing from rough to a "chipping area."

Robert, they can change a number on the scorecard, but its still the same distance. There have been a number of "creative measurements" over the years. For example, the 7th hole was 600 yards when it opened (from back tee) while during the 60's it was changed to 586 and now up to 595. The front tee, never moved even after renovation, went from  506 yards to 496 4 for the Open. Strange, to lose 30' when the tee never moved.  

[jeffwarne]

Phillip
mea culpa if I'm mistaken-I was sure #4 green sloped away more from the player when approached from straight on(requiring a precise layup more to the right)-but you seem to have a firm grasp of what has actually changed.

Perhaps it was the sheer firmness of the green in the past to an elevated green that I mistook for the green sloping away.
(I actually thought they had taken out the greens sloping away feature to entice more to go for the green in two)
It was soft this week due to heavy rain Monday

[Kyle Harris]

Jeff,

I had wondered that about 4, too. I had read it sloped away from the player. However, both times that I've played it I didn't notice that or even worry about it. The second time was from the fifth tee (yay pulled five woods). I was able to hold both shots.

If anything, the difficulty in approach from that side is the greenside bunkers and judging the distance correctly.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

I seeem to remember 4 sloping a little more towards the right and maybe a little to the back--but nothing major.  

The green is above the level of the fairway up the right hand side (i.e. 2nd shot is up the right side and finishes with the player having a clear look straight up the green).  

Am I correct?  It's been a year.  Kyle, when are we going?  I'll call.  

[Lou_Duran]

Not having seen the previous version of 14th, I very much liked the new.  The hole was cut on the back left of the expansion, and my six iron to the middle, left me with a very interesting uphill putt.  Besides the different shade of the new grass which will blend in well within a year, I thought that the added green looked very natural and congruent with the rest of the green complex and the course.  

Coming into the second round to make a cut, a player may choose to challenge the hole and if he goes long, he is dead.  Ditto for a right back position which could very well become the location of choice for the last round.  Cut the high rough to fairway length most of the way to the bottom of the declining hillside to the back as Matt Ward suggested, and getting it up and down would require exquisite touch.  A guy from there I played with said that the pros shot well under par on 14 at the last US Open.  I must say that if I had a 6 iron from the back tee, most of the pros would be hitting between 7 and 9.  We all know how well these guys hit the short irons- direction and distance.