help re Donald Steel in America

[mark chalfant]

I would appreciate feedback on his strengths. I sense that  his
team builds challlenging green complexes. id like to learn about his routing skills.Do the courses contain variety, or strategic interest.? thoughts on Carnegie Abbey or Vineyard would be
appreciated. esp. standout holes. Thanks

[TEPaul]

I only know his first course in North America---Redtail G.C. in Ontario. It's a very fine course that only has around 30 bunkers total although it feels like there're more than that. The greens are quite interesting and the good news is the golf course was remarkably reasonable to build cost-wise. It was built on a former horse farm.

[Don Herdrich]

knowing one of the owners of the Vineyard Club on Martha's Vineyard, I am very familiar with it.............it is on a great piece of property (very similar to Nantcuket GC).......I really don't like the par-3s......it is about $350K to join now

[Brian Phillips]

Mark,

He has retired and now apparently lives in Australia.  Tom Mackenzie now owns and runs the company.  Tom did most of the recent work anyway and according to many is superb.

Brian

[Dunlop_White]

Just finished playing 18 with Donald Steel this weekend. As I don't know much about his design work, I can attest that he is very much a gentleman and can still play very well.

Lately, his lead men, Tom Mackenzie and Martin Ebert, have been doing most of his design work, including the Abaco Club on Winding Bay, in the Bahamas. Donald, however, seems to be very involved with a new course in southern Virginia, by the name of Primland.

His resume/bio. would knock your socks off. It's truly incredible. As a prominent player, writer, and architect, Paul Daley believes he is the leading golfing personality in the world today, and top-five of all-time. Perhaps he can attest to Donald's design ability.
 

 

[Adam_Messix]

Dunlop--

You are absolutely correct.  Donald Steel is very involved in the Primland, a hyperexclusive development being put together in Southern Virginia.  I had the privlege of having dinner with Donald Steel and the developer of Primland, Ian Dalziel, last summer.  Donald is a gentleman of the first order and I will never forget the dinner and conversation.  

[Dunlop_White]

Adam, Yes...spent the day with Ian Dalziel also. Though I haven't seen Primland yet, it should be a treat when I meet these gentlemen up there in August, just following the Walker Cup at Chicago G.C. Apparently, the course offers 40-50 mile vistas of Winston-Salem, Pilot Mt. and G-boro, much like Roaring Gap Club. Both courses are built overlooking the Piedmont foothills of North Carolina, and both courses are built approximately 2,800 above sea level. I got the feeling that the course is still over-vegetated, but they said it was only 90% complete.

[Michael Whitaker]

Mark - Donald Steel and his associate Tom Mackenzie designed super-private Cherokee Plantation in the low country of South Carolina near Beaufort. You might remember that Cherokee Plantation hosted a Shell's Wonderful World of Golf episode with Ernie Els and David Duval.

Check out this link to Mr. Steel's description of the course. It will tell you all you need to know about his design philosophy:  (Click on the "Design" button) http://www.cherokee-plantation.com/golf1.html

By the way... rumor has it that the course was set up so difficult for the WWofG match that, after playing six holes, Duval & Els threatened to quit if the remaining pin positions were not moved to the center of the greens. I think both players were four or five over par after six holes. A crew was dispatched post haste to move the hole locations and the show was saved!

[Dunlop_White]

Incidentally, Steel was also the ex-editor of the legendary book, "Shell Book of Golf" -- along with Peter Thomson and Herbert Warren Wind. Paul Daley also tells me that Mr. Jeff Mingay and others are curremtly re-doing this effort.

[Scott_Burroughs]

mark

Carnegie Abbey is well-routed....  You can find it on a google or similar aerial and you will see waht I mean.

to save time, you can see the aerial much quicker here


Also, a couple of years ago, I played golf with someone who worked on building the roads in Primland, and he said that one hole (a par 3) cost something like $7 million alone to build.  Supposedly a fairly severe property.  I called last year, and I think they said 2006 or 2007 opening for the course.  2006 sounds right based on comments above.  Wouldn't surprise me that a number of holes are finished and grown in already.

The "Prim" part comes from the same guy (Gary Primm) who built/owns the Primm Valley courses (and casinos) on the CA/NV border south of Las Vegas.   Primland has been primarily an outdoor/hunting/fishing retreat.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I played the Vineyard Club a few years ago. It was a beautiful club in a wonderful place. However the golf was very average. It was uninspiring much like the same feeling I had walking the 2nd course at Turnberry after he redid it. There were some pretty good holes but the earthwork and shaping was not done in a scale to create the natural feeling one should have in that setting. There was a hole on the back nine that was totally out of place. The lake looked like it was from Florida. The routing seemed odd given the lack of housing to force the issue.