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ForkaB

The Victorian Golf Boom?
« on: May 21, 2005, 09:57:19 AM »
One of the members at Littlestone (Jim Goby) mentioned that there were 50 (FIFTY!) golf courses built in the 1890's between Sandwich and Rye on the south English coast.  Most were built (I think he said) by Purves (archie of Sandwich and Littlestone) but are now NLE.  Anybody know anything more about this?

TEPaul

Re:The Victorian Golf Boom?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2005, 10:44:55 AM »
Rich:

Some of those courses were probably reviewed by Horace Hutchinson in the 1897 edition of "British Golf Links" that has just been reprinted for the first time in 108 years by Golf Media Group. You can buy it on Amazon for about $55.

I've just been reading the book which has numerous old photos of some courses of that early era which we today may refer to as "Victorian" architecture, although Hutchinson in his course descriptions and reviews never mentions such a term that I've yet found. He occasionally mentions the term "artifiical" and "natural" but the former never apparently in any derogatory way. The reality seems to be merely a matter of happenstance of where the club and course happens to be. He describes some bunkers as naturally occuring and some that are really rudimentary geometric shapes as just "bunkers". He describes the use of walls and fences and roads and ditches and such that were used for hazards on both linksland and inland courses of that era. I cannot see that he ever mentions the term "cop" bunker either---the feature that some on here say was the very representation of Dark Age, penal, Victorian or Industrial architecture. It seems the term "Victorian" was used by a number of architects but that term was used in the future it seems, likely after the famous break-through courses in the healthlands, Park's Sunningdale and Huntercombe---two courses that have been credited as the beginning of quality naturally appearing man-made architecture!

It seems likely to me that courses like Sunningdale and Huntercombe were not just the first examples of naturally appearing man-made architecture built outside the linksland but perhaps the first examples of naturally appearing man-made architectural features built ANYWHERE. Some of those famous old linksland courses had some pretty rudimentary looking man-made architectural features, as did the early English inland and seaside courses. The main difference seems to be between the linksland and early English seaside courses is that they had some of those early Dark Age rudimentary man-made features too but scattered amongst some otherwise fascinating natural ground for golf, while the early English inland courses were simply not on interesting natural ground for golf---eg mostly flat or naturally featureless for golf other than things like walls, ditches, roads, trees, water or anything else that had been there before golf did. Hutchinson uses another interesting term for an early man-created feature or designed feature that was used for early English inland golf that preceded golf. That being the term "plantation". (look up the definition of that under the heading "chiefly British" used in the definition of "plantation"! ;)

And not once does he mention the term "Arts and Crafts" Movement or its influence that I can see.

Golf architecture (man-made) appears to simply have been at a point where it was beginning to come of age no matter what kind of ground it was on wherever it was. It appears that what those two land-mark courses of Sunningdale and Huntercombe really were all about is just that they were the first examples anywhere when man-made architectural features began to become more natural in appearance.

Perhaps Hutchinson, Country Life magazine, and the "Arts and Crafts" Movement taught Willie Park Jr all that in a period of about two years but I seriously doubt it and apparently so does the long and voluminous literature of golf and golf architecture. ;)

Not that Hutchinson didn't write about the differences later, and not that he may not have been aware of the differences in the last few years of the 1890s. But apparently so was Park Jr and the point is he was the one who most all claim was the first to actually do it.

Tom MacWood, of course, seems to continue to claim or imply that Hutchinson and the arts and crafts movement actually taught him how to do it!  ;)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2005, 11:00:57 AM by TEPaul »

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:The Victorian Golf Boom?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2005, 10:51:57 AM »
Tom,

I'm pretty sure "Arts and Crafts" wasn't termed until many years after Hutchinson's British Golf Links rolled off the press, in 1897.

You're pretty sure that an "Arts and Crafts" ideology had nothing to do with the direction golf architecture took during the early 1900s, eh. I disagree.
jeffmingay.com

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Victorian Golf Boom?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2005, 10:57:59 AM »
jeff well said., TE thanks for the info on the book and Rich, How did you remember that during the many victory drinks that were sure to be had?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2005, 10:58:55 AM by Tiger_Bernhardt »

T_MacWood

Re:The Victorian Golf Boom?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2005, 11:00:56 AM »
Rich
Fifty seems a little high. Did he mention any specific courses?

Jeff
You're right. Arts and Crafts, big 'A', big 'C', was a descriptor hisorians settled upon way after 1897 (and long after the movement was history). There is no mention of the A&C movement in William Morris's obituary in 1896, although you will find arts and crafts mentioned...small 'a', small 'c'.

Rich
Sorry for this diversion.

TEPaul

Re:The Victorian Golf Boom?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2005, 12:16:06 PM »
"You're pretty sure that an "Arts and Crafts" ideology had nothing to do with the direction golf architecture took during the early 1900s, eh. I disagree."

JeffM:

Let me try to get something very clear here. Not once---not one time--have I EVER said that the "arts and crafts" movement had NOTHING to do with golf architecture or NO influence on it at all. It was Tom MacWood and perhaps David Moriarty who have said on some of these threads on the A/C Movement that I, and others, have said that.

All I have ever said is this;

1. I do not think the Arts and Crafts Movement was the primary influence on the direction golf architecture took in the English Heathlands and later in America into the Golden Age of golf architecture---certainly nowhere near the extent that era now deserves to be described or to be renamed or relabeled "arts and crafts golf architecture" as Tom MacWood is continuously trying to do on here and in his essay on the "Arts and Crafts" Movement.

2. Although Hutchinson was a fine golf writer, and he was extant and influential on golf architecture in some ways after the Heathlands, I certainly do not think he remotely deserves to be referred to as "The Father of golf architecture" as Tom MacWood concludes and suggests.

3. I do not believe that Hutchinson informed Park Jr what to do and how to do it in the Heathlands with the break-through courses of Sunningdale and Huntercombe. Tom MacWood is still trying to make the point that Hutchison must have informed him of how to do that because Park Jr built some rudimentary features previous to Sunningdale and Huntercombe. I think I've fairly well proven that even Hutchinson was not critical of those types of early features even at the time he edited "British Golf Links"---in 1897.

4. What I am saying is I believe that the voluminous literature of golf and golf architecture for over the last 100 years has gotten right and reported accurately what the real and primary influences were on the so-called Golden Age of golf architecture. I am saying that I do not believe that at this point those primary influences need to be viewed now as the "arts and crafts" movement because that is simply not the historical case and the historical truth. Claiming so is simply trying to supply "revisionist history", in my opinion.

Tom MacWood gives us a ton of background on the actual "Arts and Crafts" Movement which did influence to some extent other art forms---particularly building architecture for a time and furniture and many other art and craft design forms. But because it may have somewhat influenced those other design and art forms he makes this leap of logic without any proof or even really establishing a logical connection that it also had to have influenced to the same extent golf course architecture of this time. That logic simply does not follow, in my opinion, when other influences have clearly been identified as far more influential on golf course architecture.

Tom MacWood's other convenient technique to continue to establish his point of the massive influence of the arts and crafts movement is to use real GENERALIZATION---eg to basically claim that the A/C movement was so broad and massive in extent, even if un-named (Tom MacWood states in his essay, “The movement became aware of itself in 1880’s when it first gave itself a name”, but perhaps now it’s convenient for him to not exactly admit to that for the purposes of his point of how broadly influential if was even if amorphous and perhaps even un-named ;) ), and even if amorphous in direction that most everything of that time may've been influenced by it more than is actually the case. His more specific implication seems to be that any turning back to the essence of nature in anything, be it a game, in any art form, social construct etc was influenced by it. I not only do not believe that is historically the case, I know it isn't.

If one wants to see what Tom MacWood is probably trying to do here, and what his underlying philosophy in all this may be, I suggest one carefully read the philosophy and the motivation of one William Morris---a man who had nothing to do with golf or golf architecture.

What William Morris was trying to do and hoping to do (according to Tom MacWood’s essay) is to unify in some way all art forms, to bring ALL art forms of any kind under this philosophy known as the "Arts and Crafts" Movement---a philosophy and movement he primarily helped create. His motivations for doing that are interesting, for sure, and naturalism in art, the redirecting of Man from the dehumanizations of Industrial life and power and perhaps even some personal revulsion of certain building architecture that was influenced by Greece and Roman classicism seemed to be his reasons. Obviously Morris, as did Pugin, had an affinity for the Gothic as opposed to the classic balance and symmetry of Greece and Roman classicism which had a large influence on British life and style (and probably still does! ;) ).

I think the A/C Movement was interesting, albeit probably not as prevalent or influential on building, furniture or art and craft as Tom MacWood thinks it was or would like to see it have been. It didn't exactly sustain itself either.

Morris had a grand philosophy that never became what he apparently hoped it one day would---and in a sense I'm glad it didn't as I don't really see the purpose, facility or benefit of attempting to combine all art forms under any philosophy or movement. I'd prefer to focus on their interesting differences and distinctions and the varying influences upon them that make them distinct for one another.

Morris, among other things, was a preservationist, probably primarily regarding Gothic architecture he seemed so fond of. SPAB was one of his contributions.

Ever wonder why most everything Tom MacWood fixates on in golf architecture is "preservtion"---even almost at the expense of memberships, of the playing of the game and the evolution of the game and its architecture? If you do, look at William Morris's philosophy very carefully. Even look at it as described in Tom MacWood's essay.

And this is precisely why, in my opinion, Tom MacWood has attempted to make these otherwise tenuous connections of the A/C Movement to golf course architecture. He has to do that first to get to the point of suggesting that the A/C Movement was the primary influence on golf architecture of the heathlands and the Golden Age.

It wasn't, and again, the generally excellent literature of golf and golf architecture of the last 100 or more years has more than made that clear.

ForkaB

Re:The Victorian Golf Boom?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2005, 01:00:44 PM »
Rich
Fifty seems a little high. Did he mention any specific courses?

Jeff
You're right. Arts and Crafts, big 'A', big 'C', was a descriptor hisorians settled upon way after 1897 (and long after the movement was history). There is no mention of the A&C movement in William Morris's obituary in 1896, although you will find arts and crafts mentioned...small 'a', small 'c'.

Rich
Sorry for this diversion.

Yes, Tom, it does seem high, given that we are talking about 60 miles or so of seashore.  But, Jim was quite confident about that number.  You might try to contact him through Littlestone to see if he has more information.  If he does, please share it with us.

No problem re: diversion.  That is what this website is all about.

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Victorian Golf Boom?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2005, 01:35:14 PM »
Tom P.,

I simply think there was a prevalent ideology (Arts and Crafts) that had an influence on all forms of art, including golf course design, around the turn of the 20th century. Early issues of Country Life magazine indicate that; Hutchinson's columns on golf architecture included.
jeffmingay.com

TEPaul

Re:The Victorian Golf Boom?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2005, 01:38:57 PM »
Rich:

Regarding that number you reported that seems sort of high for that early time, I really do wonder if any of us are really understanding the way golf and golf architecture may've been in that early time in England. Tom MacWood seems to be telling us that the style of golf architecture in England in those "Dark Age" times was some result of Victoriamism and perhaps the Industrial revolution but I wonder if it wasn't more just the very initial evidences of golf and its architecture in a country not that familiar with it. He's even suggesting that Dunn and even Park were for some reason imbued with a symmetrical, unnatural instinct in golf architecture before being informed by the naturalistic influence of the "Arts and Crafts" Movement.

Perhaps, to better understand this early era in England and its rudimentary, symmetrical architecture we should begin to understand that linksman like Park may've simply been laying out a basic routing in a day or so the way Bendelow did so often in this country in the early days. We know he probably could've done much better if given the time and the money to do so but in most cases he wasn't and very likely either were the likes of linksman Dunn and Park in early English golf.

Maybe we're all just making way too much of some stylistic influences early and then later than were really there. Maybe many of those fifty courses you mentioned between Rye and Sandwich were so simple and rudimentary that they had no real reason to survive long-term. They may not have been that much different than if I got on my tractor right now and mowed some holes in the fields on my farm and put some flags out! If I did that it might not be here in 5 or 10 years   ;)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2005, 01:40:55 PM by TEPaul »

T_MacWood

Re:The Victorian Golf Boom?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2005, 01:58:47 PM »
TE
We digress; once again allow me to address your concerns with my essay. As I have said before it is not perfect (if I was to re-write it today I would make a number of changes/corrections), but IMO its pretty damn good especially considering it was written by someone who was not a professional writer, and certainly not a scholar. And although my research has accelerated since I wrote it five years ago, I still stand behind its premise, if anything I more convinced.

Regarding your listed concerns:

1. The essay does not claim the A&C movement was the primary influence. The essay says Hutchinson was the primary influence, tracing it back to his critical look at inland courses and his opinion that inland courses should strive to emulate the naturalness of the seaside links.

2. Again if I was to re-write the essay I would not call Hutchinson the Father of…., I prefer ‘The Guide’.  

3. “Informed” or “influenced” whatever you want to call it, yes that is what the essays claims….that Hutchinson’s critical look at inland golf architecture had an affect on Park and others. The essay also claims the critical observations began after “British Golf Links”, so I’m not sure exactly what you have proven.

4. I really don’t agree there are voluminous accounts (in the last 100 years) of what specifically occurred in the heathlands in 1900 and what specifically influenced that golf design revolution. Which accounts are you referring to?

I can appreciate your frustration with the broadness of the A&C movement. It was a unique movement, it had no specific style, it was philosophy more than anything, and its philosophy (philosophies) could be (and were) adapted and adopted by many diverse mediums. It is complicated by the fact that many of its more radical ideas (about politics and thoughts about the machine for example) were rejected by many who are now associated with the Movement.

Perhaps if you study the history of the Movement in greater depth, you will beign to appreciate its scope and complexity.

I agree with you, the sentence about the name Arts and Crafts is misleading and contradictory, and probably should be re-written. The origin of the name A&C can be traced back to the Arts and Crafts Exhibition Society of 1888. When a number of the artists and craftsmen we now associate with the A&C Movement formed a society to exhibit their arts and crafts….arts and crafts which were a response to the shoddy man made goods of the Industrial revolution.  

There were a number of arts and crafts groups and societies that popped up to promote the idea of craftsmanship—FL Wright formed a group in Chicago in 1897 and Wesley Dow (Olmted’s good friend) began one in Boston prior to that.

Were these people aware they were part of a philosophical design movement that affected not only ‘arts and crafts’ but architecture, gardening, politics, etc? Yes.

Were they aware this Movement would be referred to as the A&C Movement years later? No.

Did they refer to themselves as A&C architects, A&C gardeners, A&C furtinture makers? No.

When historians labeled this period the ‘A & C Movement’ they obviously borrowed the name from these organizations whose members are now looked upon as the founders and theorists of the Movement.  

Here are some links that briefly discuss the movement, and the A&C Exhibition Society:

http://www.artsandcraftsmuseum.org.uk/

http://www.speel.demon.co.uk/other/aandc.htm

http://www.lacma.org/info/press/artsCraftsPR.htm

http://uk.encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761566609/Arts_and_Crafts_Movement.html

How much longer will we continue to beat our respective dead horses?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2005, 02:20:13 PM by Tom MacWood »

T_MacWood

Re:The Victorian Golf Boom?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2005, 02:27:14 PM »
I'll also add that it is clear to me that the ideas of Ruskin and Morris clearly had an affect upon Hutchinson. And the ideas of Ruskin and Morris had major affect on the aesthetics of that period, an aesthetic that can be seen in magazines like Country Life and The Studio.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2005, 02:27:41 PM by Tom MacWood »

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Victorian Golf Boom?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2005, 02:42:04 PM »
Rich,

Below is a link that I found going through Cornell University's "Making of America" digital exhibit. The link is to New Harper magazine in 1894 which discusses "golf mania" in England and Scotland from the perspective of a visiting American. The article begins midway down on page 760 and continues for about 15 or so pages. I've posted page one below.


http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/pageviewer?frames=1&coll=moa&view=50&root=%2Fmoa%2Fharp%2Fharp0089%2F&tif=00770.TIF&cite=http%3A%2F%2Fcdl.library.cornell.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmoa%2Fmoa-cgi%3Fnotisid%3DABK4014-0089-81


T_MacWood

Re:The Victorian Golf Boom?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2005, 02:45:27 PM »
Rich
Off the top of my head: Rye, Hastings St. Nicholas, Littlestone, and Sandwich. Ashdown Forest and Crowborough Beacon are in the general vicinity if you go inland. If you expand the time frame Deal and Princes could be included. If you move a little west, you can include Eastbourne and Cooden Beach. I'd guess there were around fifty courses built in Kent and Sussex in the late 90's/early 00's.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2005, 02:47:06 PM by Tom MacWood »