[Mike Hendren]

Nicklaus' depression behind the 13th green at Augusta National Golf Club was widely criticized initially but seems to be accepted today as a strategic architectural feature.  It repels and gathers, does it not?  I like it, but it does seem to relegate the rear bunkers to frames.

The same feature exists left of the 15th green at Shoal Creek but I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg.

You opinion?

Mike

[Mike Hendren]

This thread was f/k/a/ Jack's Trench.  

I'm bumping it to the top since it has failed to foster any photographs of scantily clad women and has not devolved into a debate about the merits and ethics of the rating process.  Perhaps I'm just insecure.

Back to the subject.  I am really interested in your opinions.

Mike
BGGWR

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike,

Sorry that this topic didn't inspire the same lurid reaction as Huck's incessant whining about Golfweek's classic versus modern conundrum.  

That thread needed a stimulating "pick me up", clearly.  

No, instead you're asking a valid architectural question and my gut feel about Jack's work behind 13 green is that by "shelfing" out the green in the manner that he did, it does accentuate the premium on the approach shot, even if he managed to also pretty much take the back bunkers out of play and drive the nail in their coffiin (see Shivas' thead on Mackenzie & eye candy).

I'll have a look see in April and let you know what I think in person rather than on the tube.  

[Kyle Harris]

Mike,

Dumb question, but what was it like before Nicklaus came?

Level? or like a back stop?

[Mike Hendren]

Kyle,

Dumber answer:  I dunno.  

Perhaps this only affirms the extent to which the change has been received?  Mike Cirba's post seems correct in that the green was "shelfed."  It appears the back of green was slightly built up then more sharply squared off in a vertical manner which when coupled with the immediate surrounds being lowered created the depression.  I have the impression that a long ball would have merely rolled through the green and perhaps into the bunker.  Today, that ball is propelled into the depression then braked from reaching the bunker.

Like I said, I don't know.

Mike

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I think this work was done by Bob Cupp when he worked under Jack Nicklaus.
I agree with one thing mentioned here.  The bunkers in back have merely become "lighthouse bunkers."  While not thinking it was done well when I first saw it on TV, the chip shots from behind the green are interesting to watch, maybe more so than a bunker shot.
It would be interesting to see what the original was.  Maybe it says a lot about the strength of the hole, whether the change was positive or not, it cannot take away the beauty of the strategy.

[peter_p]

What about flood or drainage issues. It certainly counters the aggressive second shot steered away from Rae's Creek.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Someone posted a copy of the Bob Cupp grading plan on here once, I believe.  Maybe it was somewhere else, but I copied it and have it on my computer.

I believe the swale was for drainage pure and simple.  The long slope above the bunkers drained between them, and on to the green.  I suspect that as runoff grew over the years, that drainage and the shaded area kept the green from reaching its full potential.  From the grading plan, it seems clear that the shelf in the back was also made more pronounced.  Probably, at that time, the slope of the green was too pronounced for its increasing speed, and above and below were flattened, leaving the deck in between.

[Jim Johnson]

Mike,
Jeff's right. According to an article I've read written by Geoff Shackelford, Geoff states that in 1975 Augusta's Par-3 course architect George Cobb oversaw the reconstruction of the 13th green to improve its drainage. When doing so, Cobb put a swale between the green and the back bunkers to catch water draining off the hillside above. This gave the green a more "crowned" look, in effect making the putting surface smaller and more difficult to hit. Cobb also eliminated an interesting "neck" in the front-left of the green, erasing what must have been an interesting pin placement.
"Cobb's Swale" was later deepened in 1983 by Jack Nicklaus and his construction team.
Shackelford goes on to state that by deepening the swale into a canal, the effect has been to elevate the green even more and to over-punish shots that just miss the green long. He says anyone who has read the architectural thoughts of Jones and Mackenzie can't help but wonder how pleased they would be to see bold, and many times well-played shots, punished because of the swale behind number 13.
JJ

[Mike Hendren]

Thank you gentlemen.

[ian]

Jeff,

I posted the plan, I'll check the computer to find it and post it again.

It was Cupp, and the front left of the green was altered at the same time.

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