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paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do we rake bunkers...?
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2005, 09:13:59 AM »
Pete....I'm not advocating non raking....just less.

   As a greens keeper at Pebble some 30+ years ago, I would hand rake all the bunkers early in the week with a 24 tooth, 6' long wooden hay rake....the rest of the week greenskeepers would just touch up footprints that players had left unraked.

We only used the sand pro [1] to help level new sand or for fast storm cleanup etc.........it was felt that the machines entry and exit was detrimental and to be avoided....all this was before the changes for the Open that Watson won, when we didn't have cart paths wall to wall and most of the rough was un-irrigated.....Pebble was much different then than now, a look and feel that I hold special...and it worked.

 

   
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Why do we rake bunkers...?
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2005, 02:13:59 PM »
I got some perspective on this issue during our odyssey to New Zealand and Australia in December.

Prior to the opening of Barnbougle Dunes, Greg Ramsay had managed to convince the investors in the course not to provide several things most courses do ... primarily no yardage markers anywhere on the course, and no bunker rakes.

I had more trouble with the former than with the latter.  You're wondering on every fairway how far it is even if you know the course like you designed it, and Barnbougle is a pretty complicated design for decision-making even if you know the yardages.  

In contrast, you're only in the bunkers occasionally, and "unraked" doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a bad lie if players smooth over their worst excavations with their feet.  However, more players seemed to have a problem with the lack of rakes than with the lack of yardages ... the fairness doctrine in play I guess.  From my own perspective, if the course is trying to compete with the best in Australia, going out on a limb to not have bunker rakes [when all the Sand Belt courses DO have them] is not something I'd feel the need to do.

On another note, while we were at Cape Kidnappers I expressed the opinion that I missed having the sheep roaming the course as they did when we were first starting the construction.  The sheep did a better job of mowing those steep banks at the sides of fairways than any maintenance worker can do.  So, Julian Robertson ordered his farm manager to send out 200 sheep onto the course for Sunday's play!  And though I didn't have any poopy lies the next day, there was plenty of stuff to step in, and I had to admit it wouldn't work for a high-end course.  You wouldn't believe how much 200 sheep can leave behind in twelve hours.




TEPaul

Re:Why do we rake bunkers...?
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2005, 04:30:25 PM »
"On another note, while we were at Cape Kidnappers I expressed the opinion that I missed having the sheep roaming the course as they did when we were first starting the construction.  The sheep did a better job of mowing those steep banks at the sides of fairways than any maintenance worker can do.  So, Julian Robertson ordered his farm manager to send out 200 sheep onto the course for Sunday's play!  And though I didn't have any poopy lies the next day, there was plenty of stuff to step in, and I had to admit it wouldn't work for a high-end course.  You wouldn't believe how much 200 sheep can leave behind in twelve hours."

Absolutely the funniest and best thing I've heard in golf architecture in years! That paragraph really should be recorded somewhere to remain in the permanent annals of MODERN golf architectural history!

Tom Doak, if your ball had ended up in some sheep poopy I want to know if you know what the strict rules of golf require on that note---and I want the ruling on my desk by the end of the day!!!  :)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Why do we rake bunkers...?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2005, 05:54:00 PM »
No relief, I believe.

It was when I played Westward Ho! for the first time, in 1982, that I finally understood that rule.  The course is still on common land, as pretty much every course was back in the day.  And if they let you clean your ball every time you rolled up against animal dung you'd be picking it up in most of the fairways ... so, no relief!

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do we rake bunkers...?
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2005, 06:00:13 PM »
I believe it's a "loose impediment", hopefully not too loose! ;D
"chief sherpa"

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do we rake bunkers...?
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2005, 06:41:28 PM »
Tom Paul....I'm still waiting... what would Max think about bunker maintenance today?
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do we rake bunkers...?
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2005, 09:09:24 AM »
There is a sign at the first tee at Tobacco Road - saying something like - because ofn the vast expanse of waste areas, the course maintainence cannot rake all of it, so if you have a bad lie you can take a preferred lie!!!!! (my exclamation marks) Why not stay home and play video golf?

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why do we rake bunkers...?
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2005, 09:23:23 AM »
Dung on the ball would not be a loose impediment if it is adhering.  In this case, make sure your eyes and mouth are closed when you swing.  If not adhering to the ball and not embedded (hopefully this is sheep dung and not elephant) it would be a loose impediment.

Differentiate bunkers and vast areas of sand.  Why rake bunkers?  Equity.  If I have a 400 pound player in the group in front of me, I really don't want to end up in his foorprint in a bunker, nor would I want any of my opponents.  Accept the bounces and deal with your lies, but smoothing over footprints is just being fair.  Now, does the surface need to be perfectly smooth?  Different subject.

Vast areas of sand are not bunkers.  They're not maintained the same, usually have firmer sand and rarely are they 5-10 yards away from the putting surface.  (I know someone will pull up an exception....)  Usually if you hit in one of these areas, it was a poor shot.

Agree or disagree with the rules, they deal with the differences between bunkers and sandy areas.