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Jason McNamara

Re:Barnbougle Dunes #1 Public Course in Australia
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2005, 01:43:38 AM »
I'm surprised that nobody yet has developed a top notch bushland course that is uniquely Australian.

Coober Pedy doesn't do it for you?  :-)
http://www.phrogs.net/Golf_Course.jpg
http://www.whereiscasey.com/gallery/album58/DSC04124
http://www.delsjourney.com/images/news/news_02-03-08/2-2667_Golf_Course.jpg

An underground clubhouse (assuming there is any clubhouse) would likely be unique.

Question for Tom Doak re Barny Dunes:  Is there another great piece of property close by for a second course, such that there's a better chance of drawing those Melburnians and Sydneysiders?  (I realize that BBD is good enough on its own!)

[Chris, maybe you can answer this if you're still on.]

Jason
« Last Edit: January 23, 2005, 01:51:25 AM by Jason McNamara »

Chris Kane

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes #1 Public Course in Australia
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2005, 01:45:14 AM »
Quote
I'm surprised that nobody yet has developed a top notch bushland course that is uniquely Australian.
A course similar in style and landscape to Newcastle would fit the bill nicely.

Matthew Delahunty

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes #1 Public Course in Australia
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2005, 10:59:37 PM »
Chris,

Parts of Newcastle (holes 4-12) is something along the lines I was thinking of. Other parts of the course though aren't lined with eucalypts. And the club's location doesn't sit in a bushland setting - it's almost a coastal course and the drive there is past industrial and then coastal scenery.

There are lots of bushland courses which fit the bill as far as location and setting (many within an hour's drive of Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane or Perth), where you get the feeling that you are on a bushwalk rather than just on a golf walk, but there is nothing of outstanding architectural significance.

Richard Chamberlain

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes #1 Public Course in Australia
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2005, 12:07:15 AM »
I reckon Bonville had the best chance to do this but blew it.
The layout and design is average but it's still a beautiful setting for a game.

Andrew Summerell

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes #1 Public Course in Australia
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2005, 03:02:42 AM »
The problem with the Australian bush is most of it is quite rocky with poor soil & not really suitable for a top quality golf course. Moving the rock & laying the amount of soil required leaves you with a very manufactured looking golf course.

Newcastle is a great choice. Although it is close to the sea, it does have a real bush feel. The 7th probably being a great example.

The other great thing is if you go there on a non comp day you will hardly see another soul on the course.

Mike_Clayton

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:Barnbougle Dunes #1 Public Course in Australia
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2005, 05:33:23 AM »
Matthew

I think it is a great point about the lack of a really good course in a bushland setting.
It is possible - despite the not perfect soils - but it seems the only demand for really good golf is close to the cities.

Horsham is a really good country course but my memories of it are it being covered in non-indigenous trees which are going to distort the feel of a natural bushland course.It is the same at Shepparton and many others.
The Vines just out of Perth has a distinct Australian feel - probably the best course in a bush setting.

Peninsula North feels a lot like Newcastle to me.

Richard.
Just how !!!! is the 2nd at Bonville?



David_Elvins

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Re:Barnbougle Dunes #1 Public Course in Australia
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2005, 07:06:51 AM »
Mike,

What about Ellerston? Does that have an Australian bush feel to it?
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Matt_Ward

Re:Barnbougle Dunes #1 Public Course in Australia
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2005, 09:56:01 AM »
Gents -- love the discussion on bush country options but the thread is about BD being #1 in Australia.

I'd like to see someone compare the courses from the perspective of par groupings -- the par-3's, the par-4's and par-5's and I'd like to hear some analysis on the overall flow / routing of both courses.

Does Royal Melbourne win out when only using the composite course or is it a better overall layout simply because of the considerable history of the facility? And -- if history / tradition are a factor then I ask two questions -- should they be and if they are how much of that should be factored into to the overall aspect of what the courses have today?

Thanks ...

Mike_Clayton

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:Barnbougle Dunes #1 Public Course in Australia
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2005, 04:20:12 PM »
Dave

Yes,Elleston is the best - I hadn't thought of it but no one can play it so what's the point.

Matt

The main difference between RM Composite (a course only the pro's play and the members a couple of times a year) is the routing attacks the wind from many directions.It is on a huge piece of ground and there is never a hint of parallel holes - they go around themselves beautifully.
At Barnbougle - because of the nature of the thin and long strip of dunes the holes go out and back on each 9 from a clubhouse in the middle.
The wind almost always blows in one direction - except at the two days of the opening when Tom and all his guys got to play the course completly the opposite way.
That has to be the significant advantage RM has over.
 Barnbougle.
As much as I love RM,Barnbougle is even more beautiful especially when you get it in the right light late in the day.
The Composite course has only one real par five - the 17E which used to play as 17C but now plays as 9C (confused?)
The opening hole at BD is a 550 yard three-shotter almost always into the wind. It is a big hole to start and a good one - maybe better than 17E
The other 2 par 5's at BD are downwind with 11 playing particurally short - Geoff Ogilvy hit a wedge in a decent wind the other day and even I can reach with a middle or long iron.
It is however a fantastic two shot hole as are the other par five's on the Composite - 2w,4w.
14 is a wonderful 5 at BD - Diagonal bunkers down the right to set up the angle and to avoid running out long down the left into a small dune.
From there you play straight down with a long iron and pitch or choose to carry a big tongue of rough and a bunker to reach the green.
If you are talking of 3 shot holes BD has the advantage but as two shot holes 2w and 4w are awfully good.
On the West course there really is no hole that is a true five. Only 4w plays longer than 500 yards.

RM has world-class short holes all over the 36 holes.
5w,7w and 4e are the composite holes and 5,7 and 13 at BD compare very well.16 is the least good short hole and it is still a terrific hole.
13 with the Sitwell Park green is about as much fun as you can have on a par three - trying to bounce a 200 yard shot short, read the contours and judge what the ball will do as it climbs and falls around the green.

The great short 4 at RM is the 10th W (12 on the TV next week) but the 2 little holes at BD - 4 and 12 - are perhaps its equal. They are both about as good as it gets on drivable fours.Both are into the wind so some days they are drives and 100 yard 6 irons but downwind (Not often) they are great fun as well.

As for the rest of the par fours 2,3,6,8,9,10,15,17 and 18 - they are the only collection of 4's to rival 1W,3W,6W,10W,11W,12W,17W and 18W in Australia.
If you could take BD and put the exact holes on RM so the holes didn't attack the wind with such predictability it would be certainly it's equal.
But you can't obviously and as Tom said you have to knock out the champion.

Does RM win when only using the Composite?
Probably the West still easily compares - there are a couple of great holes on the west - 9 and 16 - that don't get on the Composite but it is obviously even closer if you are comparing it to the West.
If BD was a hundred years old and RM  new I don't think it would alter the question of which was superior. RM's reputation is well earned simply because of the quality of the holes - not the MacKenzie mystique or the fact it has had almost all of the great players play there.

It is only a small point but playing off the fescue at BD is more fun than the couch/Poa at RM - and it is the best conditioned course in Melbourne.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2005, 04:22:02 PM by Mike_Clayton »