Briarwood vs Knollwood near Chicago

[mark chalfant]

Im wondering if anyone is familiar with Briarwood. If so, is
the land or the routing of interest. I played Knollwood long ago and enjoyed the  greens which were true and fast. But none of Knollwood's holes really stuck in my mind.Did I
miss something at Alison's Knollwood?  Is Briarwood much
more memorable in topography or routing. Any stellar holes?
Thanks for any help.

[cary lichtenstein]

Briarwood's topography is typical of Chicago, flat.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark,

Knollwood's routing intertwined with the club facilities and road are a little awkward.  But, it's sure got a nice, seperate facility.  It was in superb condition when I played it years ago.

[erichunter]

Played Knollwood in October.  Enjoyed it.  Great set of greens.  

Here are some pics...



This is a short par 4 on the back.  Most on here detest willow trees but it forces you to make a decision off the tee.  We hit everything from 5 iron to driver and the scores ranged from birdie to double.



And here is the finisher, nothing too exciting until you get to the green which slopes back to front.



Favorites include #2 a short par 4 that bends to the left and the first par 5 on the front, I think #6.  

[SL_Solow]

I have been out on business and I am tied up today on a deal.  I have a long delayed course review in draft but I will try to respond in detail this weekend.  Thanks for the kind words to Shivas.

[SL_Solow]

Mark,  Sorry for the delay but work and a vacation kept me off the Board for awhile.  I won't compare Briarwwod to Knollwood as I was the club President during our recent renovation and green chairman for 5 years before that and thus my objectivity is suspect.  Nor will I take much time regarding the history of the course.  Suffice it to say that Briarwood (fka Briergate) was built in 1921 to an Allison design featuring his usual empahsis on large deep bunkers and interesting greens.  It is well routed on about 170 acres of largely flat land.  The club failed in the 1930's and was acquire by RB Harris who in his typical fashion reduced the size of the bunkers and greens, probably in an effort to aid maintenance.  He also planted a lot of Hawthorne bushes.  The membership acquired the property in 1958.  Over the next 40 years tree planting programs were instituted, most of which did little or no harm to the routing .  Several efforts to modernize the course using multiple architects, notably Nugent and Lohman, took place resulting in modifications or complete rebuilds of 7 holes. Thus while the Allison skeleton was largely in place, the course was an architectural mish mosh.
  In the spring of 2000 the course was hit by a microburst downing over 225 trees and damaging many others.  Rather than merely replanting, the club interviewed several architects, seeking a unified vision for the design going forward.  We selected Mark Mungeam who suggested a "sympathetic renovation" designed to bring back much of the Allison flavor without attempting a true restoration.
   The politics of the effort are the subject of another thread.  Suffice it to say that we decided to proceed.  The work was done in the fall of 2001 and the couse was fully reopened on Memorial day 2002.  It has received rave reviews.  Every bunker was reshaped.  Some old ones that had been filled were reclaimed, other new ones were filled.  Some were moved.  10 greens were expanded.  Several new tees were built and most were "squared off."  2 holes were substanially rebuilt with new greens and an entirely new 14th hole was built to replace a Lohman rebuild.  About 80 trees were cut down.  Replanting on the perimeters has taken place.
   The following is a hole by hole summary, distances are from the back tees;
       
    1. Par 4 421 yards into a prevailing breeze.  Fairway narrows at about 230 with large bunker right and clump of trees left.  Large greenside bunker right, approach bunker 30 yards short in left fairway.  Large green sloped back left to front right.
     2.  Par 4 437 into breeze with semi blind tee shot.  Slight dog leg right.  Entire front right portion of green guarded by large deep bunker.  Ground approach possible from left.  Difficult green has a ridge running from front to back in right third of green with fallaway green in that portion for green withi a green effect.
      3.  Par 5 575 downwind.  Tee shot narrows at about 240 by large bunker in right fairway.  Hole doglegs left sharply after bunker requiring shot over large pond to 2 tiered (Nugent) green.  Most players lay up second shot.  Landing area for layup narrowe by water, bunker, and trees as player approaches short iron distance.
     4.  Par 3 204  Deep approach bunker 15 yards short right, deep greenside bunker on left.  Large well sloped green
      5.  Par 5 550 into breeze but plays shorter if player challenges fairway bunker jutting into landing area in right side of fairway.  Sets up chance to go for green in two.  Those playing left may lay up short of cross bunker at 110 yards or hit over into narrow area of fairway.  Green is well sloped front to back and well trapped.
      6.  Par 4 403 yards.  Mini dogleg right with uneven ground in landing area.  Long narrow green slopes front to back guarded on right by a seies of bunkers. Left is open but falls off sharply leaving a difficult chip.
       7.  Par 4 422 dogleg left.  Very large bunker set well below green on right, left side open to ground approach but undulations feed bunker if shot is miscalculated.  Left side of fairway is heavily treed.
      8. Par 3 179 yards to a fishhook shaped green with bunker on right guarding the "hook" portion.
      9.  Par 4 440 yards downwind to green slopng severely from front left to back right.  Tightly and deeply trapped.
          The back 9 is shorter with more doglegs.
     10. Par 4 381 yards.  Doglegs left around a retention pond.  At the turn of the dogleg there appears to be a minefield of bunkers guarding a severly sloping back to front green
      11.  Par 3 147 yards over a pond.  A Mungeam redesign of a Lohman hole the large subtly undulating green fits well with the Allison greens.  Only 1 bunker on the right.
       12.  Par 4 430 yards into prevailing cross breeze and slightly uphill on approach shot.  No fairway bunkers, trees on both sides but fairway is wide enough.  Green is sloped sharply from back right toward front left.  Interesting "stairstep" bunkers on left, large bunker guards front right.
       13.  Par 5 501.  Landing area narrowed by trees on both sides.  Last 100 yards before green guarded by water (Nugent addition) narrowing fairway to approximately 15 yards.  Thus player either lays up or tries to fly to the green or a greenside bunker.  Large green with a lot of movement.
      14.  A Mungeam original the Allison hole had been a short par 4 with a fall away green.  Lohman had torn it up and built a hole with a narrow water hazard built on the highest part of the property guarding a very narrow green with no ground approach.  For about half the members it was a driver and 2 short irons.  It is now a par 4 400 yards with a large water hazard running the last 100 yards down the right side.  A fairway bunker guards the left side ar t about 135-155 yards out.  The green is a reverse redan with the water hazard substituting for the redan bunker.  A difficult green to read.
      15.  Par 3 183 yards slightly downhill to a green with an approach bunker covering the right front approx 10 yards short and a bunker left.  Green runs back left to front right.  A very pretty par 3.
      16.  Par 4 410 with 2 large fairway bunkers guarding the dog leg between 225 and 270.  Well trapped green with a very narrow opening.
       17.  Par 4 396 dogleg right cut out of oaks on both sides drive must be in left half to have a clear shot at a very undulating green.
        18.  Par 4 408 dogleg left around the retention pond.  Narrowest landing area on the course, only 22 yards between fairway traps.  If traps are carried , must stay left to avoid running through fairway.  An old elm grows in the right center of the fairway about 35 yards short of the green limiting aerial approaches and a large deep bunker guards the front left of the green which is large and features the steepest slope on the course running fronm front to back.

   A couple of other points.  We have had the same superintendent since 1960, Paul Voykin, and the couse is always in great condition.  However it doesn't feel overmanicured because Paul was the pioneer in naturalizing rough areas both as a means of reducing costs and beautifying the course.  Thus many out of play areas grow wild with native prarie grasses and wildflowers.  These areas have also come to serve as a habitat for small wild animals who have attracted larger species.  Thus on our little 170 acre tract in the suburbs we have deer, fox, coyote,skunk, red tail hawks (nesting pair) predatory owl, blue heron (periodically) egret(same).  The playing corridors are generally in the 40-45 yard range with some variance in both directions.
 I hope this helps.  I'll answer any questions.  Several posters have played including Shivas, Gib, Dave Wigler,Evan Fleischer, Paul Fischer,Dave Moriarty and Rick Holland.  Maybe they'll chime in.

[Evan Fleisher]

All I can add to SL's comments is that I'm lucky to remember the course.  When you are lucky enough to play a round of golf with arguably #1 and #2 Hall of Fame chatterboxes in all of GCA (Gib and Shel -- which was a meeting of heroic proportions!), needless to say, you simply do not focus on the golf.  I had to back off every other shot -- I was laughing too hard!    

Agreed!  Classic stuff indeed Shiv!!!

It was a pleasure to play at Briarwood with our esteemed Mr. Solow...he was simply "gushing" over his newly renovated baby, and the worksmanship showed.  Much care and thought had/has gone into the work done there, and the results were quite good.  I even got to meet Mr. Super Of The Year...an even bigger bonus!  Talk about a guy who loves what he does..

[A_Clay_Man]

Shel- I read with interest your post and was wondering during what timeframe the Nugent and Lohman work was done.

also,
Does the pond you describe on the high point of the site serve the irrigation system?

[Jeff Goldman]

I too have been a guest of Shel Solow at his wonderful course.  I recall many of the holes and especially the greens, and that the course was a ton of fun to play, even though on that day I couldn't.  I also claim the record for putting average per GIR, as I hit only one (13), and made the putt.  14 with the reverse redan was terrific too, as were the par-3s.  Hearing Shel recite tales of his administration and the renovation was hilarious, and gave me my first glimpse into club life.  Joined one anyway.  

Shel, you should also tell the story of the eagle on 13 you "coached" from offspring.

Jeff Goldman

[Jeff_Brauer]

Adam,

I can tell you that Killian and Nugent were over there working before the splitup in 1984 and probably before 1980.  How do I know?

 I recall Dick sending me over there in his place one day, without informing the committee, on account of some personal business. If memory serves, at that point they were considering some forward tees, and even though I was green as peas, I drew the plan (the kind of work the new guy in the office usually does) and Dick said I would be fine if I presented with confidence.....

Well, Dick used to offer the private clubs an hour of free consulting if it was during one of their typically fine lunches.  I walked in to a chilly reception, as the unannounced junior associate, and they ordered lunch from the menu.  They went around the table ordering while I studied the menu (they knew it by heart, of course) and each selected great sounding stuff - lobster, steak, you name it.  Just as I was about to order, Paul Voykin says "The grilled cheese here is good....." and that's what I ate.  

I like grilled cheese, but nonetheless, I never worked up the necessary confidence to make a powerful presentation.....and it was a low point of my apprencticship.  

Two others were another well known super who kept changing a bunker design into a simpler, easy to maintain shape not long after that.  Remembering Dicks advice to be confident, I challenged him, chiding him that it looked like a "porkchop."  He replied that this was what the club told him to do - a porkchop bunker.  When I jested that it was a Jewish club, he corrected it to Lambchop bunker, and got his way.)  

BTW, the lowest was working all night on a presentation rendering for a Wisconsin Project and getting to go to my first presentation.  As Dick starts presenting, I see a guy in the back of the room staring at my rendering, going eeny, meeny, miney, mo.....It only had 17 holes.  In my sleep deprived state I skipped it in design, and somehow numbered them skipping the 12th, so I didn't notice.

I hadn't thought of Paul Voykin for a while.  Certainly, he is a dean among Chicago supers.  I do recall he came to the office one time and had us draw a perspective sketch of a backyard driving range for one of his members.  I also recall that sketch showing up in Golf or Golf Digest a couple of months later.  I would have loved some credit for it.....

Ever notice how many golf features are named after food?  Pork Chop Bunkers, Chocolate Drop and Ice Cream Cone Mounds, etc?

[A_Clay_Man]

Thanx for that dose of reality Jeff.

I was fortunate to get to golf Briarwood 1 and a half times, back around the timeframe 1980-1984.

One of my Dad's friends who I kind of Idolized, was a member there and he took me on two occasions. The sad part was he had to quit the last time after nine, complaining about some pain. Later that week, he was rushed into emerg surgery and was then the victim of medical mal-practice and died.

Ben Katz was one free spirited happy go lucky yiddle. (affectionate self description)
He even let me use his 500sl for prom.

I remeber him puting on a putting demonstration the first time we golfed there. Playing like those Tom Paul scrambling descriptions, I read yesterday.

The other fact I know about Briarwood is that they had a policy in place that forbade individual guests from golfing more than two or three times annually. When MJ came to town he had already teed it up when someone had to come and tell him that he was over the limit. I bet thats what got him into the golf course business.

Anything ever happen to MJ's courses?

[mark chalfant]

Jeff,Adam,Shivas,SL, thanks for your help on this.

SL.... thanks for your thorough description of the course and
congrats on your heroic  efforts to improve the course at
Briarwood.

[SL_Solow]

Thanks for the kind words from those who visited.  Jeff, your visits were before my time.  Come see us next time you're in Chicago and see what has changed.  Adam, the Lohman work came after the Nugent work, circa late 80's or perhaps 90 or 91. The pond was man made and totally unrelated to the irrigation system.  It was one of the most unnaturally placed artificial hazards I have ever seen although we did our best via plantings etc to make it blend into the surroundings.  It was filled in when we rebuilt the hole.  As for the guest policies and MJ related questions, we still limit rhe number of times a resident guest may play in season (4) on the theory that those who want to use the club on a regular basis and thus enjoy a principal privilege of membership should be members.  When MJ was a youngster he was befriended by a number of our members, one of whom owned the health club which was the then practice facility for the Bulls and that rule was "honored in the breach" for a long time.  He still comes out a few times a year with friends.  I don't believe he ever built any courses, only a couple of driving ranges were built using his name.  I don't believe that much if any of the money behind those projects was his.