[wsmorrison]

These are Flynn's construction instructions for the revision of the 18th hole at the original Huntingdon Valley Country Club in Noble, PA not on the present site.  This was done in the early 1920s because the president of the club witnessed a guy drive the green and he wanted the hole lengthened and strengthened.



I guess the image isn't as clear as I thought.  I'll try to resize the image so that the instruction details will be evident.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Gil Hanse does his individual hole drawings on almost the exact grid, with "Explanatory Notes" and a close-up of the putting surface at right. Sort of a tribute to Flynn, I guess. And I like it.

[wsmorrison]

Jeff,
Ross drawings are similarly laid out as I recall.  I've seen some of Gil's drawings and they are similar to Flynn's.   Nice to know that these methods are worth keeping.  Flynn's drawings are well presented and as you can see, a lot of information is included.  I'm trying to play with the image to enlarge it so that the text can be better read, but I am not getting anywhere with it.

[ET]

Wayne-  Do you still have those plans of Rolling Green ?
Some architects work well in the field, no drawings, others need them, even if changes are made during construction. Archie Struthers did Twisted Dune w/out many drawings.
ET

[Jeff_Mingay]

You're right, Wayne. I have many Ross drawings featured on a similar grid, with notes and a close-up of the green design at right.

ET: I worked with Rod Whitman on Blackhawk GC in suburban Edmonton. The only drawing done was a line routing. That's it. Over two summers, Rod was on-site (I'm guessing) well over 200 days.

[Mike_Young]

I also use the same templates for hole layout but we overlay the topography on the grid so that contour changes will reflect.
I think it is a time proven method used by many for field drawings.
Mike

[Tripp_Davis]

It is a great way to lay out work in the field as well.  Am I correct that Flynn was asked to make changes to his original design and did so?

I am playing Indian Creek in the Ray Floyd Four Ball later this week.  It is a great deal of fun and worth seeing for any Flynn fan.

[TEPaul]

Wayne:

Does that drawing say hole #15 or #16 at Huntingdon Valley?

[wsmorrison]

Tripp,

I love Indian Creek.  I find it fascinating to study this
particular course as the entire topography was planned.

"Am I correct that Flynn was asked to make changes to his original design and did so?"

I don't understand the question, Tripp.  If you mean at Huntingdon Valley, there were changes proposed by Donald Ross.  Some of these changes were enacted.  The 14th green was moved and a back tee on 15 was added.

Tom,

This drawing is of the 18th of the original course not the present course.

[wsmorrison]

ET,

I have Flynn's drawings of Rolling Green and Gil Hanse's master plan.  Very interesting stuff!

BillV,

I'll try and do as you suggest.  My skills are limited however.  Thanks for the tip!

[TEPaul]

"Tom,
This drawing is of the 18th of the original course not the present course."

Amazing---the original Huntingdon Valley course!?---the one few seem to know much about. Wayne finds in Finegan's "A Centennial Tribute to Golf in Philadelphia" that that original Huntingdon Valley course may have had nine original holes by Atlantic City G.C's jack of all trades John Reid and perhaps another nine or at least some work by Oakmont's Emil Loeffler!

[AndyI]

Wow.  That is fascinating, Wayne--I'd love to see a larger version of that image if you have one available.  What is the date on that drawing?

Did Flynn propose changes to any other holes at the original HVCC course in Noble, and do you know whether they were carried out?  It would be interesting to know how long he had been involved with the club before he got the job designing the current (circa 1928) 27-hole layout.

Also, do you have complete copies of the plans for the current HVCC course (I think I heard that Linc found them in a barn, correct?)?  Do those plans have construction instructions as well?

This is great stuff, guys.  Thanks, and please keep it coming.

[wsmorrison]

Andyl,

I've spent so much time trying to manipulate the text for viewing that I might as well just type the instructions for the original 18th hole at Noble here.  The drawing date is October 30, 1923.  As far as we know, this is the only drawing indicating changes to the original course.

18th Hole  341 Yards

A.  Undulating mound 3 to 6 ft. high, with sand pocket:  melting into Green

B.  Sand pocket above surface of the Green in slope
(Flynn preferred to have bunkers behind greens be at or above the surface of the green so that the shot to the green running away was especially testing)

C.  Sand pit 18 inches below Green surface, face revetted

D.  Sand pit 3 ft. below Green surface at edge of Green.  Face revetted.

E.  Shallow pit with irregular face

F.  Sand pit 2 ft. deep with irregular face

G.  "        "  18 ins. "     "       "         "

H.  "        "  18  "    "     "       "         "    to be visible from the 17th Tee.

I.  Sand pit 1 ft. deep with irregular face

J.  Present pit

Remove all trees in line of play.  Remove Spring-house and make ground playable.

Put in 18 in. Tile Drain, in ditch across fairway (shown by dotted line) and make ground playable.

Break down steep ridge and bank at right side of the present 18th Green, making surface in that vicinity part of the fairway.

Take out double terraced wall at left of pit C and slope back naturally.

The gradient of the approach to the Green indicated by dotted line shall not exceed 1 in 10.


The Green instructions:

The gradient of the Green from the zero point to the back shall not exceed one in forty, except that the back portion of Green shall drain off at point 2 as indicated by the arrows.

Point 1 shall be one foot above Green surface, melting into Green by a slope not exceeding one in fifteen.

(Scott Anderson provided me a mylar copy of the entire 27 hole routing map.  It is very informative and impressive.)

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