Is the intentional miss dead?

[Brian_Gracely]

In the past, you used to read about some of the great players that would intentionally not try and hit a green because the risk of the shot was too high.  Instead, they would intentionally miss short or right/left and take their chances with a chip & putt from the proper angle.  

But it seems like this concept is dying or dead as people become obsessed with greens-in-regulation, always reaching a Par4 in two shots...and courses are surrounded by fronting bunkers and thick rough that encroaches to the edges of greens.  

In Ran's profile of Lost Dunes, David Eger mentions that he often tries to approach the #2 green with his 3rd shot played from the left side instead of trying to reach the green in two.  Not sure if TomDoak intended this type of play, or just built a wide fairway and David is using it to play the shots he wants.

Another example is #3 at Raleigh CC, where I often tell people to miss short (it doesn't run up) because everywhere else (except the sloping green) is probably a 4,5 or 6.


Have golfer given up on this type of strategy, or do the newer courses just not allow this type of strategy anymore?

[Chris Kane]

Brian, could Retief Goosen's second shot into the bunker at 15 on the last day at Shinnecock be considered a "calculated miss".

[Brian_Gracely]

Chris,

You're probably right that the calculated miss has evolved for the PGA Tour because the bunkers are so consistant these days.  

But do you see that approach for every day players?

[Tom_Doak]

Brian,

There are about 12 holes at Lost Dunes where you ought to be thinking about where you want to miss it ... not that you have to play short of the green intentionally, but you always have to take one portion of the green out of play if you want to have a reasonable putt.

Fred Muller misses greens at Crystal Downs within the same ten-yard area day after day.

[Chris Kane]

Brian, I think the intentional/calculated miss is probably more relevant for everyday players - their lesser skill means that they can't attack the green like a professional/top amateur can.

Goosen's intentional miss on 15 was as much a product of the extraordinary conditions that day as it was of the architecture - had the greens been presented like they are at a PGA Tour event, I imagine he'd have gone for the green.  As it was, there was no way he could have possibily held the green given his lie in the rough.

I'm an everyday player myself (10 handicap), and the intentional miss is a big part of my strategy on the long par-4 and 5 holes at my home course.  If I have 220 yards or more to the green, I'll usually pick the safest spot to miss, and aim there.  I figure that I've got more chance of getting down in three that way (and taking the big number out of play) than to go straight at the flag in firm/fast conditions.

[blasbe1]

If I have 220 yards or more to the green, I'll usually pick the safest spot to miss, and aim there.  I figure that I've got more chance of getting down in three that way (and taking the big number out of play) than to go straight at the flag in firm/fast conditions.

Chris:

I sincerely hope your'e fuc.ing joking!

[Chris Kane]

Jason, I should have said "sometimes" rather than "usually" - I'll intentionally miss when there's plenty of wind about, I'm coming from the wrong angle or there's a big penalty for missing in one particular spot (ie. a deep bunker on the short side).

 

[blasbe1]

Jason, I should have said "sometimes" rather than "usually" - I'll intentionally miss when there's plenty of wind about, I'm coming from the wrong angle or there's a big penalty for missing in one particular spot (ie. a deep bunker on the short side).
 

Chris,

I would encourage you to "ride" the wind from a short angle, that way your'e likely to have a decent pitch up wind . . .  it's that olde ying and yang thing (but then I gathered you knew that).  BTW, Chris, I find your observations of golf professionals inane!

[Chris Kane]

Brian, what about 11 at ANGC?

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Billy Casper intentionally missed the 3rd green at Winged Foot West in the 1958 U.S. Open and got it up and down in all four rounds.

When playing Winged Foot, I always look for the best, low miss as a bail out, particularly in cases where the pins are tucked between two fronting bunkers.

JWK

[Scott_Burroughs]

Isn't the aiming spot on #5 at PVGC just short of the green?

With the pin on the front half of #4 at Cypress, the spot to be is just short of the green.

At my home course, with the pin on the front half of the 11th green, the easiest spot to make par is often just short of the green, despite it being a steep slope.

Other steeply pitched greens on non-famous courses where just short is a good place to miss:  

#11 (par 3) at Ross muni Mark Twain, Elmira, NY
#8 (par 4) at Towanda CC, Towanda, PA.

[Jim Franklin]

There is a par three at Pine Tree where my host told me it was easier to make par from the right of the green rather than on the green. My three opponents hit the green and made bogey while I missed where I was told and made par. I wish I had my scorecard with me to remember the exact hole.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Jim,

Check here to help you refresh your memory.


Are you gonna be in Chapel Hill Saturday?

[Jim Franklin]

Scott -

I see the hole, I just can't figure out the number from the picture. It was making me dizzy.

I will not be at Chapel Hill because it is our annual Ryder Cup at BCC (old guys vs young guys). Fortunately, I still fall in the young guy category with Mr Carroll.

[Jim Franklin]

Shiv -

I had the same pin and if I knew now what I didn't know then I would have done the same thing you did. I happened to go for one more club and pulled it to the second level. Two miraculous putts later, I had my par .

[THuckaby2]

Shiv -

I had the same pin and if I knew now what I didn't know then I would have done the same thing you did. I happened to go for one more club and pulled it to the second level. Two miraculous putts later, I had my par .

This is really funny... I did the exact same thing Jim did, with the same sort of thinking as Dave, only I figured that with my iffy sand play, on the green is always going to be better than in the bunker.  I too managed this allegedly miraculous two-putt.  Had to make a 10 footer for the 2nd, but a two-putt if was.  

If I were a scratch with a good sand game, I'd think like Dave.  He is correct for that type of player - in the bunker is better than on the green and left, with that front right pin.

TH

[Mike Hendren]

Fred Muller misses greens at Crystal Downs within the same ten-yard area day after day.

Doesn't this imply that if he takes dead aim at the pin he should never be more than 15 feet away for birdie?

I think the intentional miss is as dead as a door-knob for the better players.  It's a putting contest for those boys.  It's all about execution at the top level.  If one can capably execute the miss, he can just as readily execute the "hit."  

STRATEGY IS OBSOLETE FOR THE BEST PLAYERS.  DISTANCE AND AGRONOMY ARE THE ONLY DEFENSES LEFT - AND DISTANCE IS LEAVING TOWN.  

Strategy, like the intentional miss,  is only meaningful to those of us whose already limited skills have eroded to the point that we'll do anything necessary to try to keep that 82 from turning into an 87.

The worse I get, the more strategic the game - and its venues - become.  

Mike
An Unintentional Misser

[Jerry Kluger]

I vividly remember the 97 Open at Congressional and I was a marshal on the 10th hole which the members play as a par 5 but they played it as a 465 yard uphill par 4.  Remember, this was pre-ProV1 so they were playing long irons or even fairway metals into the green.  At the green there are bunkers and deep grass left, a swale running up the middle of the green, and a pond immediately right, and the pin is on the right side of the green about 5 - 8 paces on.  This is the final round and every player is going for the green with most players making bogey.  Els, the eventual winner, leaves himself about 5 to 10 yards short of the green and chips in for birdie.  I didn't get a firm answer if it was intentional that he played short to avoid the trouble, but it sure seemed like the right play.  

Today there is very little that will deter a tour player from being aggressive in most events because there is very little risk versus reward, and they have to keep up with the other players or be left in the dust.  I would have thought that you would see me intentional misses at Whistling Straits but they really did not back off except for perhaps Mickelson.  

[THuckaby2]

Well Dave aw-shucks idiot dumbest person on this board me had darn near the same thinking... only EXECUTION on the tee shot wasn't as good.. I pulled it anyway, long and left - on the far far side of the rollercoaster - classic doublecross.  You know, shit happens.

Which of course is another issue in all of this.  Even the greatest thinking matters not when execution fails.

TH

[THuckaby2]

Tom, here's the point:

that's the subtlest of the subtle.  And both of us saw it.  

And OK, maybe that green ain't exactly the most subtle in the world   , but the strategy is.  You and I both know that if that if there was the same bunker in front of #17 at Pasa and the pin was front right, we'd both be doing the exact same thing!  And that might be one of the most subtle greens in the world!

Right on, bruthah.
But of course I get back to execution.. funny you mention #17 at Pasa... I know that missing that green to the left is dead - the ball doesn't come off the hill, and the resulting chip is brutally hard, going over small ridge and then running away... and yes this is rather subtle, you don't know how bad the miss there is until you've played it a few times... but even not knowing, you know the general rule is to not short-side yourself, especially when the next shot will be downhill... so even there, the strategy is figured out quickly...

So yesterday, not once but TWICE* I missed left, in the exact same place, 20 feet from the back left pin, requiring more touch than I have to get down in two, either time.  I swear I was TRYING to hit it right of the hole, but the golf gods just gave me two identical pulls.  Sometimes I do hate them.

TH

* we played 10-17-18 after our normal round finished.  very fun.

[mike_malone]

 When I played Royal Portrush I was told that Bobby Locke aimed for the hollow to the left of the green each day of the 51 Open.I believe he parred each day.

    When I joined Rolling Green I asked our pro at the time how to play #14---uphill 200 yard --severe hill to the right but more troublesome shot from the left of the green. He said"Play it short".

[Tags:]

Tags: